Changes to gatelines at London Victoria

[JonathanH]

The website 'ianvisits' has a story today about changes to the ticket gatelines at London Victoria. Of interest is that the gateline appears to be changing the treatment of platforms 13 and 14.

London Victoria station set for £30 million upgrade

London Victoria station is going to become easier to use as a £30 million upgrade starts work on tidying up the ticket barriers and clusters of shops.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

London Victoria station set for £30 million upgrade
Published 21 July 2022
Transport News
London Victoria station is going to become easier to use as a £30 million upgrade starts work on tidying up the ticket barriers and clusters of shops.

London Victoria station was not designed for the number of passengers using it today, and even now, with slightly fewer people travelling currently, Network Rail says that narrow gate lines and poor passenger flow around the station and on the platforms causes congestion at busy times.

To improve things, some of the shops next to ticket barriers on platforms 2-7 and at platforms 8-13 will be removed to make space for more ticket barriers. They will also be moving the Gatwick Express ticket office from its current location in front of the platforms to the existing Southern ticket office, so that the full width of the space at platforms 8-13 can be turned into ticket barriers.

All told that will increase the number of ticket barriers in the station from 86 to 111, including adding 8 more wide (accessible) gates.

They will also be opening up and expanding the station concourse area that serves platforms 15-19, and creating a new thoroughfare between platform 14 and the existing escalators to the Victoria Place Shopping Centre.

Although the changes at Victoria station means the loss of food outlets next to the ticket barriers, new outlets will be constructed on platform level elsewhere, so people don’t have to go up to the shopping centre to get that ever essential cup of coffee in the day, or greasy burger for the journey home after the pubs closed.

The aim of the £30 million project is to help people get on and off trains by creating extra space for the ticket barriers. They expect that to improve train punctuality as well, particularly in peak hours. Arguably, it’s also going to be clearer for passengers not used to the station to see where the trains are from the waiting area as they’re not hidden behind a fast food outlet.

Work on the project is set to get underway in September with the relocation of the Gatwick Express ticket office. Network Rail says that it will then start work on the Kent concourse gate lines (platforms 1 to 7) which serves Southeastern trains in November 2022 and the Sussex concourse gate lines concourse (platforms 8-19) which serves Southern and Gatwick Express later in the year.

To minimise disruption to passengers, the work has been timed with the Victoria resignalling project, a major programme of signalling upgrades on the south London lines into London Victoria. This means the most disruptive work will happen when there are fewer or no passenger services running at the station, as lines will be closed.

The station upgrade is scheduled to finish in late 2023.

 

[JaJaWa]

If Lush is staying in the same place in the last pics, it looks like Platforms 15-19 are coming towards the concourse?

 

[JonathanH]

If Lush is staying in the same place in the last pics, it looks like Platforms 15-19 are coming towards the concourse?

Yes, I think that is right - the wording and pictures imply that all of platforms 9-19 are in a common paid area.

Is there any plan for a separate Gatwick Express gateline at Gatwick Airport? If 9-19 are all behind one gateline then it is going to be difficult to maintain the current platform 13-14 surcharge. Alternatively, it would be feasible to change higher prices to all users using Gatwick Airport.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Slightly shocking how little 30 mil gets you these days

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slightly shocking how little 30 mil gets you these days

Particularly with railway inflation.

 

[adamello]

Network Rail news article - https://www.networkrailmediacentre....tion-and-improve-accessibility-for-passengers

with further pictures

 

[WelshBluebird]

Network Rail news article - https://www.networkrailmediacentre....tion-and-improve-accessibility-for-passengers

with further pictures

Shows a different pictures for the after part for platforms 15-19, so I guess they aren't moving like in JaJaWa's post?
Actually ignore this, its just the image in JaJaWa's post is more zoomed in than the one on the Network Rail site!

 

[zwk500]

Slightly shocking how little 30 mil gets you these days

The compensation to the businesses affected by having to be relocated and the costs of building replacement units probably isn't particularly cheap.

 

[physics34]

Slightly shocking how little 30 mil gets you these days

Suspect there are few backhanders going around. And why will it take so long? Im assuming they will be removing the Sloe, Whsmith and the Pure outlets under the escalators.

 

[Recessio]

Did always amuse me that Victoria Station had two Burger Kings, two McDonald's, and two Upper Crusts. Seems they've finally realised they didn't necessarily need all them.
Any information on where the replacement shops at platform level will be?

The changes to the Southern side of the station look excellent.

Will be interesting to see how much of this gets ripped out for Crossrail 2.

 

[JonathanH]

Will be interesting to see how much of this gets ripped out for Crossrail 2.

That is many many years away though isn't it. It is still seemingly worth making changes. I imagine part of the business case will be the number of people who get through the existing gatelines without paying by forcing their way through or being allowed through the manual gates.

 

[Backroom_boy]

That is many many years away though isn't it. It is still seemingly worth making changes. I imagine part of the business case will be the number of people who get through the existing gatelines without paying by forcing their way through or being allowed through the manual gates.

Yes, I predict Victoria will have 3 or 4 reconfigurations before we get CR2

 

[WizCastro197]

I read about this in Septembers edition of Modern Railways so I am only now aware of this subject. Work will apparently begin this month. My main worry is that the GatEx Platforms will not be clearly labelled so now either the few gates that grant access onto the platforms will charge and extremely high fare for a small journey on oyster/contactless or will not charge the difference In price for the GatEx


But I guess we will just have to see...
if it gets completed next year...


But If I am really honest, I think if they are making this improvement, they should just re do the whole station maybe not the South eastern parts. They keep making these small changes like the New Board New gates etc but it all looks stupid against the Brighton Platforms because they are rather horrendous. Foreigners coming in from Gatwick, get a shocking first impression of the UK from that shoddy station then get another from Victoria. Such Brutalist moves such as building and an absolute pointless Victoria Place are just stupid, it has two floors with pointless shops that could be incorporated into Victoria main concourse. I just wished they have Listed in before such a shocking change.

 

[physics34]

I read about this in Septembers edition of Modern Railways so I am only now aware of this subject. Work will apparently begin this month. My main worry is that the GatEx Platforms will not be clearly labelled so now either the few gates that grant access onto the platforms will charge and extremely high fare for a small journey on oyster/contactless or will not charge the difference In price for the GatEx


But I guess we will just have to see...
if it gets completed next year...


But If I am really honest, I think if they are making this improvement, they should just re do the whole station maybe not the South eastern parts. They keep making these small changes like the New Board New gates etc but it all looks stupid against the Brighton Platforms because they are rather horrendous. Foreigners coming in from Gatwick, get a shocking first impression of the UK from that shoddy station then get another from Victoria. Such Brutalist moves such as building and an absolute pointless Victoria Place are just stupid, it has two floors with pointless shops that could be incorporated into Victoria main concourse. I just wished they have Listed in before such a shocking change.

Sloe Bar and cash machines by platforms 15-19 have already closed, as have the cash machines and Patiserrie Valerie by plt 2.

What u say is correct about a shoddy look for foreigners. But it goes deeper.. the 'premium' gat ex uses metro stock, the logo and livery of gatwick express is so ridiculously poor as it doesnt throw the feeling of an airport service at you... plus the lettering is too small. 'GX' means absolutely nothing to a non english speaking person let along everyone else. The stairwell from the above car park to the gatwick platforms is embarrassing. Victoria place yes is woeful.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Back in the early 90s I could manage some lightning quick changes between the SE and SC side of the station. My train (a VEP) used platform 7, so provided I was in the 4th coach back, the train came in, no TPWS crawl, I was out the second it stopped (slam door, no 10 second wait while the GPS works out where the train is so that the driver can release the doors); take a straight line from the door right past the platform 8-14 barrier line and I could be on my South Central train in 30 seconds.

Nowadays, off a crowded train as everyone has to funnel through the platform end gate line and you then have to walk round to use another gate line it can easily take 4 or 5 minutes. Oh well.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I was out the second it stopped (slam door, no 10 second wait while the GPS works out where the train is so that the driver can release the doors);

Southern’s SDO is beacon based - there’s no GPS involved at all. Not sure about SE.

Connectivity between platforms should be prioritised far more than it is now - really there is no reason people should have to go out onto the concourse if they’re changing.

 

[JonathanH]

really there is no reason people should have to go out onto the concourse if they’re changing

Not true. It prevents ticketless travel. It means that journeys via Zone 1 are correctly recognised.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Southern’s SDO is beacon based - there’s no GPS involved at all. Not sure about SE.

Connectivity between platforms should be prioritised far more than it is now - really there is no reason people should have to go out onto the concourse if they’re changing.

TBH neither am I but whatever the magic is, it takes a lot longer to release doors than to egress from a slammer....

Not true. It prevents ticketless travel. It means that journeys via Zone 1 are correctly recognised.

It's a lot to do with station layout. London Bridge (even before rebuilding) had access to all platforms without needing to use the gateline. But the layout of Victoria prevents this. Whilst revenue protection is important, it's not ideal to add time and length to interchanges just to funnel people through gatelines, especially given their shortcomings as a ticket checking mechanism.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Not true. It prevents ticketless travel. It means that journeys via Zone 1 are correctly recognised.

Isn’t that where pink readers would come in? If you tried hard enough, you could travel through Zone 1 without it being recognised anyway.

An interconnect with pink readers would do just fine. No need to funnel everyone in and out.

The rail network needs to make revenue protection integrate with connectivity. Not the other way round.

 

[stuu]

Connectivity between platforms should be prioritised far more than it is now - really there is no reason people should have to go out onto the concourse if they’re changing.

There can't be very many journeys where going to Victoria and back out again are the sensible route. For most places on SE, going to London Bridge is going to be quicker

 

[WizCastro197]

There can't be very many journeys where going to Victoria and back out again are the sensible route. For most places on SE, going to London Bridge is going to be quicker

If you are changing from Southern then onto SE Victoria is required as there are absolutely no interchange points apart from Victoria on the Chatham Mainline. But to get to the Hastings line, Redhill-Tonbridge is viable.

All my Redhill-Balham Tickets or My Redhill Bournemouth/Poole tickets are marked not via London Terminals. Does it still say this if there the only sensible option to reach a different destination on a different line is via London? Say no Interchange points further down the line. But with both my examples you can change at Clapham, but with RDH-Balham Southern do not say to go via Clapham?


Gatwick Airport to Faversham is my example, I hadn't placed any Via/avoid filters.

 

[paul1609]

There can't be very many journeys where going to Victoria and back out again are the sensible route. For most places on SE, going to London Bridge is going to be quicker

Theres loads, basically anything with a Southern service to Victoria onwards to Bromley South, Medway and North Kent.

 

[Minstral25]

The SE and Southern platforms are different parts of Victoria, unlikely they can put both sections behind a single gateline, so you’ll always have to go out of SE platforms and into Southern. On Southern services, only GatEx comes in with a need to swap trains that probably couldn’t be done quicker at Clapham Junction. Perhaps Battersea Park services too.

 

[stuu]

Theres loads, basically anything with a Southern service to Victoria onwards to Bromley South, Medway and North Kent.

Fair point... how many people actually do those journeys though? National Rail enquiries gives a journey via Beckenham Junction and Tramlink for East Croydon and further south

 

[paul1609]

Fair point... how many people actually do those journeys though? National Rail enquiries gives a journey via Beckenham Junction and Tramlink for East Croydon and further south

Might for East Croydon but anywhere outside the zones eg Arundel to Gillingham Kent Southern tells you to change at Victoria and thats what the majority of people do. Ok you have to go through 2 sets of gates but otherwise its an easy level walk.

 

[thedbdiboy]

There can't be very many journeys where going to Victoria and back out again are the sensible route. For most places on SE, going to London Bridge is going to be quicker

My anecdote was based on historic timetables. Before London Bridge platforms were lengthened to 12 coaches, the majority of Chatham line Cannon St fasts could not call there so for my journey (Sittingbourne - Croydon) in most cases a change at Victoria was fastest. Oh, and for completeness I should point out that HS1 didn't exist then either

 

[WizCastro197]

Fair point... how many people actually do those journeys though? National Rail enquiries gives a journey via Beckenham Junction and Tramlink for East Croydon and further south

For Chatham Mainline as I have already explained is the only feasible way there…

 

[stuu]

For ch

For Chatham Mainline as I have already explained is the only feasible way there…

Doesn't everything stop at Bromley South?

 

[WizCastro197]

For ch

Doesn't everything stop at Bromley South?

Yes you are correct but it isnt a major interchange point with other TOCs? I am not site quite what is has to do with anything. Why would someone going from say Reigate venture all the way out to Bromley South when I can easily change at Victoria?
What is your argument/point here I am still so confused?

 

[zwk500]

Doesn't everything stop at Bromley South?

Getting to Bromley south is not the simplest journey from the Brighton Line. Especially if you're coming from further out, so running non-stop between East Croydon and Clapham Junction.