Changes at Crewe

[185]

Out of curiosity .IF the Manchester-South Wales services were rerouted via the independent lines. How many paths would become available to run through Crewe? With them being so restrictive both using a full crossover of all lines and needing 5 or 6 platforms causing further restriction. What in theory could be gained?

Probably a few more paths. In my view, there is so much wasted potential with the infrastructure at Crewe. There could even be platforms on the independents, a fair walk but useful if the station if being re-jigged with a moved main entrance. The primary job, in my opinion is complete resignalling and replace with a modern seamless efficient system unlike the stop-start situation at present. The roadbridge at the front should go with a new re-routed road to the north of the Crewe Arms pub.

 

[6Gman]

Wetherspoons, and the adjacent shops were all compulsory purchased by the council, and are to be demolished togther with the bus station for a town centre redevelopment. Work on the this was supposed to start at the end of last summer but it looks like the starter motor is broken. Presumably for I think the third time the council has taken so long messing about that the moneys gone and the are is now in a mess and with more money has lost from rents and rates

Actually I don't think it was a compulsory purchase, but a straightforward commercial purchase. It may not have been a terribly good move. The biggest single tenant was BHS - who promptly collapsed shortly afterwards!

The handling of the termination of other tenancies has not been above criticism either.

 

[6Gman]

HS2 phase 2a lands at Basford Hall Jn. Will be a new grade separated junction etc so ideal opportunity to do the re-signalling.

Indeed. But are the arrangements for the station clarified yet?

 

[6Gman]

Probably a few more paths. In my view, there is so much wasted potential with the infrastructure at Crewe. There could even be platforms on the independents, a fair walk but useful if the station if being re-jigged with a moved main entrance. The primary job, in my opinion is complete resignalling and replace with a modern seamless efficient system unlike the stop-start situation at present. The roadbridge at the front should go with a new re-routed road to the north of the Crewe Arms pub.

I suspect that, in theory, it might create two paths per hour through the station. Whether those paths could actually be used depends on whether they could be maintained to suitable destinations.

The Independents are quite a long way from the station, and at a different level. Fitting in platforms would also be challenging.

Not sure what purpose a road to the north of the Crewe Arms Hotel would serve, nor how - without an awful lot of demolition - it could be linked up to the rest of the road network.

 

[R G NOW.]

It's a while since I did a grand tour, but I decided then that East Anglia, the south west and Kent had the most dilapidated station buildings in the country.
I'm talking about large stations like Ipswich, Colchester, Margate, Exeter St Davids etc, even Bristol TM and Cardiff C (for services on the platforms).
Nothing appeared to have changed since BR left.
They seemed worse than the VT stations we are talking about, especially considering the footfall at most of them.

Why are you picking on Bristol temple meads and Cardiff central? I visit these stations often and can see nothing wrong with them, although the only thing I can fault at temple meads, is the bad and untidy way the new signalling was installed. The station is to undergo another complete rewire, which was mentioned on our local news back sometime in summer last year. Which will hopefully get rid of some of that awful trunking, and is now collapsing with some wiring hanging out.

The station was last rewired in 1983 - 1984.

 

[iainbhx]

Not sure what purpose a road to the north of the Crewe Arms Hotel would serve, nor how - without an awful lot of demolition - it could be linked up to the rest of the road network.

Speaking as someone who worked in an office just to the North of the Crewe Arms until 3 months ago (I've relocated to the Business Park), I don't see it either and there's several hundred jobs in that area on the Macon Way side which Crewe needs badly.

 

[driver_m]

I suspect that, in theory, it might create two paths per hour through the station. Whether those paths could actually be used depends on whether they could be maintained to suitable destinations.

The Independents are quite a long way from the station, and at a different level. Fitting in platforms would also be challenging.

Not sure what purpose a road to the north of the Crewe Arms Hotel would serve, nor how - without an awful lot of demolition - it could be linked up to the rest of the road network.

Two paths would be given up by the loss of the Man-SW services anyway. So in theory it should be more, as you can have trains coming from other directions without too much conflict with say, 2 trains running North-South during both times. Best example would be at Ardwick In, Manchester where taking the Liverpool TPE out of the equation doing a full crossover would have given up a number of paths .

 

[The Planner]

It would probably allow one fast path on the through lines per direction per crossing move. You cannot path a train on the fasts until 4 minutes after a crossing move takes place. Standard junction margin for going after a fast line train should be 2 minutes. So in the Shrewsbury direction you could have a fast train pass at xx.00, a crossing train into 6 at xx.02, fast train at xx.06.

 

[driver_m]

It would probably allow one fast path on the through lines per direction per crossing move. You cannot path a train on the fasts until 4 minutes after a crossing move takes place. Standard junction margin for going after a fast line train should be 2 minutes. So in the Shrewsbury direction you could have a fast train pass at xx.00, a crossing train into 6 at xx.02, fast train at xx.06.

Needs a rugby style changeover as well, as the 4 tracking changes from parallel running at Crewe. Only add a few hundred million to the cost!

 

[The Planner]

It will likely be whatever is in the spare parts bin. All the boxes will go though, Basford Hall, Salop Goods etc...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why are you picking on Bristol temple meads and Cardiff central? I visit these stations often and can see nothing wrong with them, although the only thing I can fault at temple meads, is the bad and untidy way the new signalling was installed. The station is to undergo another complete rewire, which was mentioned on our local news back sometime in summer last year. Which will hopefully get rid of some of that awful trunking, and is now collapsing with some wiring hanging out.

The station was last rewired in 1983 - 1984.

Temple Meads basically has no concourse and so has a very poor selection of facilities - no M&S Food is a particularly odd thing.

 

[HowardGWR]

Temple Meads basically has no concourse and so has a very poor selection of facilities - no M&S Food is a particularly odd thing.

Could this not be because all three stations, Crewe, Bristol and Cardiff are due for a major revamp thus discouraging any temporary investment. There's nowhere to put an MandS Food at present.

 

[47271]

Could this not be because all three stations, Crewe, Bristol and Cardiff are due for a major revamp thus discouraging any temporary investment. There's nowhere to put an MandS Food at present.

Cardiff does have an M&S?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could this not be because all three stations, Crewe, Bristol and Cardiff are due for a major revamp thus discouraging any temporary investment. There's nowhere to put an MandS Food at present.

Not at present, but the part of the old Brunel trainshed presently used as a car park would be ideal for creating a food court type concourse.

 

[R G NOW.]

Could this not be because all three stations, Crewe, Bristol and Cardiff are due for a major revamp thus discouraging any temporary investment. There's nowhere to put an MandS Food at present.

I know BTM at present, does have a café like place on platform 7, but to me does not seem large enough. My station, Gloucester had a place completed to put in a W H Smith, but it has never gone in there yet and the shutters are always down.

I think that the old train shed is going to become platforms 16 and 17, when they pull down the old panel box.

Is Crewe about to be resignalled onto rugby roc now?.

 

[R G NOW.]

I remember Crewe station back in the 80's. It had just been resignalled, providing a ssi type signalling system, it was I believe one of the first to be installed on British rail at the time. Also unusual at the time was the installation of old telephone enclosures used to house the T.R.T.S and RA buttons.

 

[adrock1976]

I know BTM at present, does have a café like place on platform 7, but to me does not seem large enough. My station, Gloucester had a place completed to put in a W H Smith, but it has never gone in there yet and the shutters are always down.

I think that the old train shed is going to become platforms 16 and 17, when they pull down the old panel box.

Is Crewe about to be resignalled onto rugby roc now?.

I remember Crewe station back in the 80's. It had just been resignalled, providing a ssi type signalling system, it was I believe one of the first to be installed on British rail at the time. Also unusual at the time was the installation of old telephone enclosures used to house the T.R.T.S and RA buttons.

Could the bolded bits be translated please?

I would like to mention that it is a long standing forum policy not to use abbreviations, acronyms, any station three letter codes, or jargon without first saying what they mean.

 

[Foggycorner]

Could the bolded bits be translated please?

I would like to mention that it is a long standing forum policy not to use abbreviations, acronyms, any station three letter codes, or jargon without first saying what they mean.

Train Ready To Start and Right Away

 

[Starmill]

(Latest (valid, though slightly tenously in terms of route until the "wobble" swaps from the Euston to a Brum service) ticket that did: return half of Bletchley to Stoke route LNR/WMR Only).

Cannot parse

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cannot parse

I opened the barriers at New St using the return half of a Bletchley to Stoke "route LNR/WMR only" ticket. It is on a Permitted Route of course but a rather tenuous one until Stoke loses its London LNR service in May.

I still think they open for any in date ticket. I'll have to buy Forsinard to Altnabreac online and try that.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I opened the barriers at New St using the return half of a Bletchley to Stoke "route LNR/WMR only" ticket. It is on a Permitted Route of course but a rather tenuous one until Stoke loses its London LNR service in May.

I still think they open for any in date ticket. I'll have to buy Forsinard to Altnabreac online and try that.

I can definitely confirm that the barriers don't open for "any" in date ticket. I've definitely had eminently valid tickets rejected.

Via Birmingham is hardly a "tenuous" route. There are direct services now, (e.g. the once a day Manchester-London service via Birmingham, and reverse), and in general, if you are going from Stafford and northwards, all of the Trent Valley and Stour Valley, and their connecting lines, are fair game according to the Routeing Guide.

 

[Steve Harris]

There's an M&S on the retail park isn't there (opposite side of the track to the Tesco and the Heritage Centre) which is a little bit of a trek, but probably too close for M&S to go on the station.

Arh, the retail park where Crewe stock car track once stood.
Is the Neptune Chippy still standing opposite the entrance to said retail park ? Used to be a very good chippy (although haven't been there in over a decade)!!

 

[HowardGWR]

Re post #77. What's worse is that BTM isn't even a three letter code (-it's BRI).

 

[Starmill]

I opened the barriers at New St using the return half of a Bletchley to Stoke "route LNR/WMR only" ticket. It is on a Permitted Route of course but a rather tenuous one until Stoke loses its London LNR service in May.

I still think they open for any in date ticket. I'll have to buy Forsinard to Altnabreac online and try that.

No, what you're talking about still makes absolutely no sense I'm afraid. For a start none of that actually has any impact on validity. Nothing about the validity of your ticket is tenuous and it should be expected to open the gates. Equally I've had tickets rejected by the gates there on a few occasions Which were valid and should have worked. On one occasion I even had to go to a different gateline because they wouldn't let me in.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, what you're talking about still makes absolutely no sense I'm afraid. For a start none of that actually has any impact on validity. Nothing about the validity of your ticket is tenuous and it should be expected to open the gates.

In an ideal world. But if you look at the sets of station pairs that have Permitted Routes via New St, there are going to be literally tens of thousands if not more of such pairs. This being the case, it is infeasible to programme them all in, so one would expect only the most likely ones to be programmed in or the barriers simply set to open for any in-date ticket regardless of where it is to or from. Or possibly, if barriers can do that (can they?) programme them to open where *one* station on the ticket is on a specific list of places, so something like Bletchley to MKC might open them.

FWIW, though, until the branches swap in May, travelling from Stoke to MK via Birmingham on a LNR Only ticket is extremely tenuous and I'd venture no normal user will do that. You have to change three times (at either Stafford, Rugeley or Tamworth plus Birmingham itself) rather than have a direct service, and it takes much longer than direct. It is however unquestionably Permitted, and is a perfectly sensible route on an Any Permitted ticket, requiring only one change, and will quite possibly become the most common route from May.

 

[Starmill]

FWIW, though, until the branches swap in May, travelling from Stoke to MK via Birmingham on a LNR Only ticket is extremely tenuous and I'd venture no normal user will do that

This has got nothing to do with it, and even if it did, it still wouldn't mean anything. It's also a long way off topic.

If you want to talk about how permitted routes are, in your opinion, tenuous, then please create a new thread for it.

 

[R G NOW.]

Re post #77. What's worse is that BTM isn't even a three letter code (-it's BRI).

I put that, because that is what I used to see on another forum, what members always put for Bristol temple meads.

SSI = Solid state interlocking.

Sorry that it confused members, Just that it makes typing easier as a Microsoft update seems to of messed up my computer, and the keys on the keyboard are now in the wrong place, also some do not work anymore.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Arh, the retail park where Crewe stock car track once stood.
Is the Neptune Chippy still standing opposite the entrance to said retail park ? Used to be a very good chippy (although haven't been there in over a decade)!!

Yes, the Neptune is still going.