Central Scotland Rover.

[reb0118]

The other day I came across a couple with Central Scotland Flexi Rovers. Although most people are honest and fill out the box part some do not. So when checking tickets on my train I always ask to see the box card.

On this occasion after asking to see the box card the passenger looked a bit confused - I explained that flexi rovers are issued as two part tickets and that they are not valid without the associated box card. The passenger stated that he was only issued with the rover part without the boxcard.

I was not convinced but upon closer examination the rover did not state ""2 part ticket" as is normal with flexi rovers and that they had been issued by the "Trainline" which is always a lottery (the vast majority of passengers on my trains with incorrect tickets have obtained them through the "Trainline"). I took this to be a issuing error & allowed the passengers to travel (they were only going one stop EDB - HYM) but explained to them to contact the booking office at Haymarket to exchange their tickets as the ones they held were not valid.

If they had held incorrectly issued point to point tickets I would have retained
them and issued a zero fare to allow the pax to complete their journey. However as they held a rover I was not sure how to do this.

I have two questions 1) have the forum come across any other flexi rovers issued on one ticket (ie no box card) & 2) Is it possible to issue a "zero fare" for a rover and if so how is it done. NB we are not allowed to override the fare but are to issue zero fares as excesses ie you input the fare paid as the price on the ticket.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

@reb0118
I hope someone else is along soon to help with this query, because my knowledge of this mater is severely limited. But it does seem to be a very interesting and potentially recurring problem, if true.
Sadly I cannot comment on the Trainline.
BTW. I congratulate you for letting those pax continue untroubled for a mere Waverley-Haymarket journey, but I fully agree that if this is likely to be a recurring matter then a means of identifying a workable solution is pressing; as is a clarification of standards between ScotRail and the Trainline.

In response to your query about the on-board procedure, I'm struggling to see how an excess (even a zero fare excess) can assist the traveller (and other revenue staff) which has more valid days of travel ahead of them - how could that Excess possibly clarify the dates / journeys on which it is used and is still valid?
The TIR is surely the correct method of authorising travel when a wrongly issued ticket has been presented. But how on earth you are supposed to complete a TIR for a 'Flexipass Rover' when there are a limited number of days or journeys remaining, I cannot imagine.

Can you recal exactly WHICH Rover it was? (There are more than one which might fit your description).

 

[transportphoto]

Hi - this is a weird one.. I didn't know TTL issued rovers?

I would agree that a TIR would have been the best cause of action, however impossible on a 3-5 min journey!

 

[CarterUSM]

This is an interesting scenario and one that I haven't come across myself. Was it an avantix issued ticket? I have been told that we cannot issue rovers such as this because the avantix only prints off the portion that the OP has described.

 

[transportphoto]

This is an interesting scenario and one that I haven't come across myself. Was it an avantix issued ticket? I have been told that we cannot issue rovers such as this because the avantix only prints off the portion that the OP has described.

According to the Op - it was issued by The Train Line

 

[CarterUSM]

According to the Op - it was issued by The Train Line

Whoops! I misread it. I thought he only suspected it! What issuing system do they use themselves?

 

[transportphoto]

Whoops! I misread it. I thought he only suspected it! What issuing system do they use themselves?

I didn't know they did rovers !

 

[rail-britain]

The passenger stated that he was only issued with the rover part without the boxcard
they had been issued by the "Trainline"

It is possible to purchase these tickets from TheTrainLine.com however they probably weren't aware the customer gets both parts, retaining the second part
In order to purchase you need to contact them directly, make payment by card method, and then receive the tickets by postal method or collect from one of their assigned self-service machines

Clearly this customer knew exactly what they were doing to get full value out of their ticket, plus the usual excuse "am only going as far as [next stop]"

However, my next question is, were these people travelling light with little or no luggage, or tourists?

Finally, the ScotRail website (where you can also purchase this ticket) is operated by TheTrainLine.com :
http://www.travelpass.buytickets.scotrail.co.uk/Rover/Default.aspx
The T&C link isn't working, but follow the next link and hidden in those T&Cs are TheTrainLine.com (trainsfares.co.uk)
I suspect this is where the customer bought the ticket from

 

[TTI]

This is an interesting scenario and one that I haven't come across myself. Was it an avantix issued ticket? I have been told that we cannot issue rovers such as this because the avantix only prints off the portion that the OP has described.

No, Avantix prints off both portions on flexi-rovers.

 

[yorkie]

Clearly this customer knew exactly what they were doing to get full value out of their ticket, plus the usual excuse "am only going as far as [next stop]"

I strongly disagree, and there is no evidence that this was the case.

I have a Flexi Rover issued on the new style stock, and it clearly says "Issued as 02 coupons", I have an old Freedom Of Scotland Flexi Rover on the older stock and it does not say that (the boxes are either on the front or back of older stock), clearly the wrong stock type was selected (ie, it's a printing/issuing error).

Ticket type: FREEDOM8IN1
Valid: 00M15D
Available: FREEDOM OF SCOTLAND 8DAYSIN15
(The boxes were then on the front pre-printed on the stock itself, but on older stock the boxes were on the back)

(Yes, it does say Freedom8in1 as the ticket type, clearly it's meant to say 15! No idea if they have fixed it now. Not worth me doing a Rover like that again, now the Valentas are gone)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However, my next question is, were these people travelling light with little or no luggage, or tourists?

Irrelevant!

 

[CarterUSM]

No, Avantix prints off both portions on flexi-rovers.

Thanks for confirming that. I have always suspected the company doesn't want to be paying me more commission!

 

[strange6]

These flexi rover tickets are open to abuse with regard to box filling. Pick your dates correctly and a 1 can be made out to look like a 4 eg 1.5.11 can easily be transformed into 4.5.11. Write the dates in faint enough and you can easily change them for the next day and bag yourself a 7 day for the price of a flexi. What they should do is print all valid dates up to the expiry and the user scratch off the dates travelled on.
In my experience, most guards just look at the primary ticket and the expiry date.

 

[rail-britain]

I have a Flexi Rover issued on the new style stock, and it clearly says "Issued as 02 coupons", I have an old Freedom Of Scotland Flexi Rover on the older stock and it does not say that (the boxes are either on the front or back of older stock), clearly the wrong stock type was selected (ie, it's a printing/issuing error).

I will need to try and find out what happens when you select this ticket through TheTrainLine.com and then select collect ticket
I suspect it is printed out incorrectly at the machine (as it is not likely to have the correct type installed)

 

[yorkie]

I suspect it is printed out incorrectly at the machine (as it is not likely to have the correct type installed)

Now I agree with you!

The reason is because reb0118 is sure it did not say "printed as 02 coupons" therefore there is no reason to believe that there is another coupon, therefore it is reasonable to expect that it is an issuing error, as that would be fine if it was printed on the special purple Rover stock (which is getting quite rare now, I remember shopping around for it in 2008 for our Scottish Rover, and we found some at Paddington).

Purple Rover stock is/was so much better because:
1) It clearly stands out as a rover (so guards don't make it look like swiss cheese in error!)
2) The boxes are on the front, so easy to see
3) No chance of 'losing' the other coupon
4) It can be easier to have it all on one ticket

 

[rail-britain]

I will make a request tomorrow for a test ticket, will see what comes out...
This might explain why ScotRail are one of the few TOCs that offer the online purchase of Rovers, most others enforce sales at manned stations only

 

[reb0118]

This is an interesting scenario and one that I haven't come across myself. Was it an avantix issued ticket? I have been told that we cannot issue rovers such as this because the avantix only prints off the portion that the OP has described.

I don't know why we are banned from issuing rovers on train. Northern guards can and do. The avantix issues flexi rovers correctly as far as I'm aware. In fact I know they do as I issued them whilst the machine was in non revenue mode during a training session. Scotrail are by no means the worst for advertising rovers - Northern being the best in my opinion - but we could do with a few more regional types. Going back to ontrain issue I think we are not supposed to do that because of the previous fraud issues regarding the all line rovers - however the refund procedures with chip n pin and the thyron devices should have sorted that chestnut out.

I feel that if a passenger boards at a unstaffed station eg North Berwick then they should be able to buy a rover eg Central Scotland 3/7 day on board. I can't see this as a revenue problem as I regularly sell 7D season tickets for a much higher value.

@reb0118Can you recal exactly WHICH Rover it was? (There are more than one which might fit your description).

Central Scotland Flexi Rover 3/7D

 

[323235]

I think it would be very good if the Central Scotland rover was extended to cover East Coast and XC with the missing bit between Glasgow Queen Street - Springburn as well as Dunbar and Perth (if not a few stations further) and Glasgow-Edinburgh via Motherwell added to the validity. In fact surely in an ideal world a Central Scotland rover should cover most of the SPT Day Tripper lines with validity ending at Ayr going South towards Stranraer.

It's certainly not a patch on Northern's offerings at present.

 

[me123]

I'm very surprised that it's not valid via Motherwell; even if it were only on Scotrail services. Seems a bit bizarre given that every other E-G line is covered, as is the route to North Berwick! I'm also surprised that Cumbernauld and Springburn aren't on it (seems like a logical route to me, especially now that the new Edinburgh-Glasgow via Airdrie and Bathgate appears on it).

I would, however, worry that going any further North would push the price up considerably. It's currently very reasonable at £33 for three days.

 

[rail-britain]

I'm very surprised that it's not valid via Motherwell

This rover ticket is primarily for passengers with First ScotRail, hence the exclusions via Motherwell, in order to exclude West Coast Trains
However, it can not be used on a small number of Cross Country and East Coast services out of Edinburgh

When this rover was originally introduced some passengers were abusing it by travelling to Carlisle, arguing that as it was valid Motherwell, it was also valid to Carstairs
Someone even managed to argue it was valid via Newcastle!

 

[island]

In that case can they just route it "NOT VWC"?

 

[rail-britain]

In that case can they just route it "NOT VWC"?

Not as simple as that, as not valid on Cross Country, East Coast, or FSR either on this route
Not only that, only valid on ScotRail services

No longer an issue, the maps confirm the valid routes

 

[me123]

Although both of them contradict each other in other areas!

It does quite clearly state on Scotrail's website that it's not valid via Motherwell, but I would argue that it should be valid for Scotrail's own services via Motherwell (given that every other E-G route is included, and the North Berwick route also is; so you can't stay on the same train from North Berwick-Glasgow Central, but can change at Edinburgh!).

 

[rail-britain]

so you can't stay on the same train from North Berwick-Glasgow Central, but can change at Edinburgh!

Part of the confusion is that the rover permits travel between Glasgow Central and Edinburgh via Shotts
It does not permit travel from any other stations along the route (except Haymarket if the service calls there)

As the route via Motherwell (Carstairs) is shared with Cross Country, East Coast, and West Coast, this would mean sharing the revenue
By excluding all these other operators makes the admin simpler

However, I am aware that some people do travel between Edinbugh - Stirling and Edinburgh - Kirkcaldy on Cross Country / East Coast

 

[Scotrail84]

I feel that if a passenger boards at a unstaffed station eg North Berwick then they should be able to buy a rover eg Central Scotland 3/7 day on board. I can't see this as a revenue problem as I regularly sell 7D season tickets for a much higher value.Central Scotland Flexi Rover 3/7D[/QUOTE]



I sold 6 rovers on 1 train on a NBW mate. Avantix printed both parts of the rovers as normal. Nothing to stop you selling them as its good customer service provided you know what your doing