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Caught without a ticket
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RailUK Forums
Welcome to the forum.
There’s a well-tried mantra here:
Given that you’ve basically been offered a settlement, the main thing they want is to believe that you won’t do it again.
Something like £150 + full single fare for all unpaid tickets.
There’s a well-tried mantra here:
- Explain and apologise for not having a ticket
- Make it clear that you understand your error, and won’t repeat it
- Offer to pay their costs and the outstanding fare in settlement
- Wait to see what they say and how much they want
- Pay!
Given that you’ve basically been offered a settlement, the main thing they want is to believe that you won’t do it again.
Something like £150 + full single fare for all unpaid tickets.
I was travelling from Rayleigh to Liverpool Lime Street via Stratford, Tottenham Court Road and London Euston.
I had a valid ticket (bought online using London NorthWestern app) from London to Liverpool. I had no ticket between Rayleigh and Stratford. At Stratford I tapped in and used my credit card to get to Euston.
At Stratford, where they were doing the check, I held back and was spotted by someone who I thought was the Police. I think now it was a Greater Anglia staff member, as it says on the letter. He interviewed me under caution, I panicked and gave the incorrect station as to where I started my journey. By the time he'd finished I'd told him I'd got on at Rayleigh and intended to travel without a ticket. I also told him I'd done this on two other occasions since Christmas. In truth, it's a lot more than two going back to July last year. And also, I was given a penalty fare just before Christmas.
I regret it, all of it. I realise that some, would say it deserves to end in court. Maybe so, but I'm really hoping for an out of court settlement. So, I have to try.
I had planned to post the letter here, draft a response and post that. I want to admit everything. But, I've seen advice on here not to incriminate yourself further, although I'm aware that they've also had a good look at the data.
So, I just don't know what to say. I found advice in a different thread summarising what to / not include but now I can't find it.
Also, I'll try to keep this brief as neither yourselves or Greater Anglia want a sob story. This began after coming out of four weeks in a mental health hospital, last June. My psychologist thinks my condition played a part and gave me a letter to include. But I don't think it has anything to do with my condition, just a mix of stupidity and desperation from being in a difficult financial situation. And I don't think his letter really says anything Greater Anglia would be interested in. So I'm a bit torn on whether I should attach that as well.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Thanks for that summary. I saw something similar in a different thread and I've been trying to find it. I'll have a go at my first draft a bit later and post it here for help in getting it right.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
"Dear Sir / Madam
Thank you for your letter dated 18 March 2025.
I'm embarrassed by my own behaviour and I'm grateful for your invitation to potentially settle the issue without court action. I regret my decision to travel part of my journey without a valid ticket. I'm also aware that I'd told your staff member that there had been other occasions where I'm made the same journey without a ticket.
Since that day, I've read about the costs suffered by the rail industry due to fare evasion. I feel genuinely remorseful and I have regret after realising that this also costs the general public in increased fares.
I'm also addressing my behaviour with my psychologist who has given me a letter to attach, if you need to know more about my condition. I've also researched more affordable journeys between Rayleigh and Stratford, which I've been taking since that day.
Please allow me to pay for my outstanding fares, as well as any costs you've had to incur as a result of my actions. I'd be really grateful if I could do this without court involvement. I look forward to hearing from you."
Grateful for any comments on the above and happy to answer anything you need to be in a position to advise.
I had a valid ticket (bought online using London NorthWestern app) from London to Liverpool. I had no ticket between Rayleigh and Stratford. At Stratford I tapped in and used my credit card to get to Euston.
At Stratford, where they were doing the check, I held back and was spotted by someone who I thought was the Police. I think now it was a Greater Anglia staff member, as it says on the letter. He interviewed me under caution, I panicked and gave the incorrect station as to where I started my journey. By the time he'd finished I'd told him I'd got on at Rayleigh and intended to travel without a ticket. I also told him I'd done this on two other occasions since Christmas. In truth, it's a lot more than two going back to July last year. And also, I was given a penalty fare just before Christmas.
I regret it, all of it. I realise that some, would say it deserves to end in court. Maybe so, but I'm really hoping for an out of court settlement. So, I have to try.
I had planned to post the letter here, draft a response and post that. I want to admit everything. But, I've seen advice on here not to incriminate yourself further, although I'm aware that they've also had a good look at the data.
So, I just don't know what to say. I found advice in a different thread summarising what to / not include but now I can't find it.
Also, I'll try to keep this brief as neither yourselves or Greater Anglia want a sob story. This began after coming out of four weeks in a mental health hospital, last June. My psychologist thinks my condition played a part and gave me a letter to include. But I don't think it has anything to do with my condition, just a mix of stupidity and desperation from being in a difficult financial situation. And I don't think his letter really says anything Greater Anglia would be interested in. So I'm a bit torn on whether I should attach that as well.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Thanks for that summary. I saw something similar in a different thread and I've been trying to find it. I'll have a go at my first draft a bit later and post it here for help in getting it right.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
"Dear Sir / Madam
Thank you for your letter dated 18 March 2025.
I'm embarrassed by my own behaviour and I'm grateful for your invitation to potentially settle the issue without court action. I regret my decision to travel part of my journey without a valid ticket. I'm also aware that I'd told your staff member that there had been other occasions where I'm made the same journey without a ticket.
Since that day, I've read about the costs suffered by the rail industry due to fare evasion. I feel genuinely remorseful and I have regret after realising that this also costs the general public in increased fares.
I'm also addressing my behaviour with my psychologist who has given me a letter to attach, if you need to know more about my condition. I've also researched more affordable journeys between Rayleigh and Stratford, which I've been taking since that day.
Please allow me to pay for my outstanding fares, as well as any costs you've had to incur as a result of my actions. I'd be really grateful if I could do this without court involvement. I look forward to hearing from you."
Grateful for any comments on the above and happy to answer anything you need to be in a position to advise.
Last edited:
WesternLancer
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Whether you admit to other occasions or not is ultimately up to you - but you should be aware in any case that they are very likely to audit your on line ticket purchasing record (they can go back some time) and may ask you to pay for new tickets for other occasions they are suspicious about as part of their settlement offer even if you removed the reference to it in your draft.
Otherwise the draft looks pretty good to me. Obviously don't miss their response deadline but you might want to wait a bit to see if others have comments.
I don't want you to have to speak about your mental health issues, but I suspect they would expect any conditions to have to have relevance to why you might evade fares, but given you have a supporting letter I can't specifically see any reason not to include it as you intend- they can always ignore it if they think it's irrelevant to the situation after all.
Good luck with resolving this.
Thanks Wester Lancer
I haven't removed a reference to it, the only change I've made so far was that I'd incorrectly said psychiatrist, when it should have been psychologist.
I had intended to include a reference to a list I have, of the dates that I think I didn't pay (and whether that was one way, or both ways). I still can include that but I wasn't sure after reading the advice to not incriminate yourself further. I want to pay for those fares but I'm a bit worried that they'll see it, and think it's better to go down the court route.
As far as I know, any travel except for the dates I have was done with a valid ticket, even if they go back years and years.
The thing about the psychologist is more to do with how I'm trying to put it right for the future, not really to do with why I evaded fares in the first place. But I think it sounds silly so I might take it out. He went to the effort to do me a letter, so I think I feel a bit obliged to attach it even if I think its irrelevant, silly.
I haven't removed a reference to it, the only change I've made so far was that I'd incorrectly said psychiatrist, when it should have been psychologist.
I had intended to include a reference to a list I have, of the dates that I think I didn't pay (and whether that was one way, or both ways). I still can include that but I wasn't sure after reading the advice to not incriminate yourself further. I want to pay for those fares but I'm a bit worried that they'll see it, and think it's better to go down the court route.
As far as I know, any travel except for the dates I have was done with a valid ticket, even if they go back years and years.
The thing about the psychologist is more to do with how I'm trying to put it right for the future, not really to do with why I evaded fares in the first place. But I think it sounds silly so I might take it out. He went to the effort to do me a letter, so I think I feel a bit obliged to attach it even if I think its irrelevant, silly.
WesternLancer
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Noted
Well, once you mention it at all you've incriminated your self, but you have to balance that against being co-operative, which is a route to helping to avoid prosecution I suspect. My hunch would be not to include the list - let them check and they will typically provide a list later on (if you specifically ask for a breakdown should they ask for a sum that is more than the one journey) - you can then compare that with your own list to see if you dispute anything - as opposed to sending them a list that's wrong due to some unintentional oversight on your part
be aware the will likely charge for fares at the 'Anytime Single' rate which is the most expensive fare for a journey (so not off peak fares for example) - so you need to factor that into your calcs as the sum they request might thus be higher than you expect
An Anytime Single between Rayleigh and London Liverpool Street is £21.90
Well, you have it and you are not making a big thing of it, but you must be comfortable with what you say to them - you could perhaps add to that section along these lines: 'This is not an excuse for the error of judgment I made but may give some background context'
I suspect co-operation is the key to not being prosecuted, along with convincing them you will not do it again, rather than other general mitigating circs.
WesternLancer
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You could probably wait till tomorrow to see if other comments. They won’t be working over the weekend to read it I suspect so you have time.
Unusually, for this forum, but refreshingly, you appear to have a pretty shrewd idea about your medical pathway here, and I commend you for it. A diagnosis is partly to explain the past, but much more about giving you tools for the future, and you seem to have a firm grip of that nuance. Having said that, I would urge you to attach the letter, and add some quote from their letter into your main letter, if it partly explains why this is harder for you than for many other people. Psychologists are able to explain complex topics and place them in the real world, and so you should take advantage of their knowledge. Also it may provide reassurance why there will be no repetition of these actions from you in the future.
Thanks Pushpit
I don't mind talking about my mental health issues but I don't fully understand where the psychologist was coming from. A few years ago I was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Last year I began to suffer from derealisation. At times it feels like I'm in some kind of simulator, or dream. Although I know things around me are real, it feels like they're not. I also suffered severe depression with associated avoidance behaviours.
The psychologist felt that the derealisation together with avoidance behaviours were partly responsible for what's happened. But I don't think they were. I think it was just a mix of stupidity alongside desperation caused by financial difficulty. Although many of the journeys I'd taken were for activities I'm using to manage the symptoms, e.g. visiting family and doing things with them.
The letter is quite matter of fact and doesn't explain any of this. And as well as not really believing in it myself, if pressed on it, I couldn't really explain it any better than I have here.
So, in principle, I'm happy to include it and talk about it. But I don't think it'll get me anywhere.
I don't mind talking about my mental health issues but I don't fully understand where the psychologist was coming from. A few years ago I was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Last year I began to suffer from derealisation. At times it feels like I'm in some kind of simulator, or dream. Although I know things around me are real, it feels like they're not. I also suffered severe depression with associated avoidance behaviours.
The psychologist felt that the derealisation together with avoidance behaviours were partly responsible for what's happened. But I don't think they were. I think it was just a mix of stupidity alongside desperation caused by financial difficulty. Although many of the journeys I'd taken were for activities I'm using to manage the symptoms, e.g. visiting family and doing things with them.
The letter is quite matter of fact and doesn't explain any of this. And as well as not really believing in it myself, if pressed on it, I couldn't really explain it any better than I have here.
So, in principle, I'm happy to include it and talk about it. But I don't think it'll get me anywhere.
WesternLancer
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The key to getting a settlement will be your co operation as well as being honest with them. Your letter conveys that to so I think every chance you can avoid prosecution.
Thanks for letting us know, it will help other people in similar situations. It would also be helpful if you could indicate how much the settlement offer was, and by all means change the numbers a bit if you are trying to keep a low profile.
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