Caught using discounted privilege ticket

[boombash]

Someone I know got caught using a discounted/privilege ticket which should only be used when accompanied by the 'staff' pass. This person was not staff but had been offered this ticket cheap for a return journey.

As they could not produce the staff pass (as they didn't have it) the inspector then cautioned them and took a statement off them regarding how they came across the ticket.

Not wanting to drop their source in it they admitted to knowing what they were doing and gave their contact details.

They have since received a letter from the rail company asking them to confirm it was them that was 'caught' that evening.

The question I have is, if they reply back saying it was not them is there likely to be any more contact from the rail company as how can they prove it was them that travelled then as it could be someone else using their identity?

 

[bb21]

Are you asking whether the person caught with the PRIV ticket should lie?

My advice, don't.

There are all sorts of things the train company could rely on, eg. CCTV footage.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It's also worth noting that, as part of their investigation, the TOC concerned will amost certainly be checking where the ticket was issued and if it wasn't issued legitimately, the issuer could well find themselves being dismissed.

 

[6Gman]

Someone I know got caught using a discounted/privilege ticket which should only be used when accompanied by the 'staff' pass. This person was not staff but had been offered this ticket cheap for a return journey.
As they could not produce the staff pass (as they didn't have it) the inspector then cautioned them and took a statement off them regarding how they came across the ticket.
Not wanting to drop their source in it they admitted to knowing what they were doing and gave their contact details.
They have since received a letter from the rail company asking them to confirm it was them that was 'caught' that evening.
The question I have is, if they reply back saying it was not them is there likely to be any more contact from the rail company as how can they prove it was them that travelled then as it could be someone else using their identity?

In my (limited) experience of such matters the railways take a very dim view of misuse of staff travel facilities. Your friend is in trouble and to lie at this stage could make that a lot worse. His friend who passed on the ticket could be in even greater trouble.

 

[tony6499]

It is dismissal for the staff as considered gross misconduct, even prosecution for them.

 

[boombash]

Are you asking whether the person caught with the PRIV ticket should lie?

My advice, don't.

There are all sorts of things the train company could rely on, eg. CCTV footage.

Thanks for advice. Yes, they was going to return the letter saying it wasn't them that got caught with the ticket as how can they prove it was them on cctv unless they take it to court? And would they really bother for such a small fare?

 

[soil]

It might be best not to answer at all. I wouldn't want to confirm or deny something like that really.

 

[Flamingo]

So to get this straight, somebody has been caught committing a criminal act, and wants to know if committing perjury as well will be detected?

Is that really what the forum is about?

To give the advice the OP requires, the TOC will pursue this. If staff travel is involved, they usually go after it very vigorously, in my experience. I'd get your friend who furnished the ticket to talk to their union rep ASAP.

 

[455driver]

Priv tickets can only be purchased from a ticket office or a guard so if somebody has bought this ticket for somebody else then they deserve to get whats due to them, and it certainly isnt a compliment!

Say nothing and they will have your mates arse in court faster than his head can spin, there is absolutely zero chances of the TOC letting this go, the well known phrase about a rottweiler and a bone springs to mind.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I echo what Flamingo said. The TOC will pursue this. Make no mistake. It's not just a ticketing issue. Someone, whom they employ and therefore have placed trust in has abused a staff facility in order to provide discounts to someone who is not entitled to them. It's all well and good trying to help someone out. But to misuse the staff facility is rather foolish. It is never, EVER a good idea to do this.

My advice? Tell the truth and get your friend to talk to their union rep ASAP. I wouldn't want to be them when they get found out.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....And would they really bother for such a small fare?

Yes, they would. Train companies have been known to take people to court over 10p, but this involves staff and will be taken far more seriously.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Thanks for advice. Yes, they was going to return the letter saying it wasn't them that got caught with the ticket as how can they prove it was them on cctv unless they take it to court? And would they really bother for such a small fare?

I'm not sure that you understand how serious this matter is. Your friend should definitely consider taking the advice of a solicitor on how to proceed.

 

[bb21]

Not replying is an option, however I doubt that it would be a good move. I agree that you may need to seek professional advice from a solicitor before proceeding further. Abuse of staff travel facilities is a very serious matter.

As for lying, as I mentioned earlier, don't. You will only make it worse.

 

[Clip]

It's also worth noting that, as part of their investigation, the TOC concerned will amost certainly be checking where the ticket was issued and if it wasn't issued legitimately, the issuer could well find themselves being dismissed.

Indeed, but also remember that even though they will know exactly which window it was purchased from they may never be able to find out who actually purchased the ticket for them as you dont input any staff number and such like.

If it was the clerk in the booking office who sold it to his 'mate' then he really needs to see his rep as has been pointed out.

 

[34D]

I wonder whether the staff concerned is actually at fault.

I mean, could the traveller have stolen the ticket from their friend?

 

[185]

I wonder whether the staff concerned is actually at fault.

I mean, could the traveller have stolen the ticket from their friend?

I have experience of both eventualities....

- In one case, an employee from a smaller TOC had issued the ticket for a friend, giving the friend a generous discount, and gaining themselves a small profit for their actions. Under police interview, the friend explained he had bought the ticket at reduced price not knowing what the discount was.

- In another instance, I called police to a person, sat in first class using a (standard class) staff pass - never normally an issue for me. This was following their claim to be an employee based at place 'X' - when that company had no staff there. Turned out the individual had left the railway three years earlier, and had took the (in date) pass from an employee.

 

[RJ]

I wonder what the ticket office clerk was thinking? It is true that more often than not, ticket inspection staff do not ask to see a Priv when shown the ticket. But to go one further and sell a friend who is not entitled a Priv ticket is just stupid.

It is very difficult to get sacked from a ticket office. So long as you don't steal the money, abuse the customers or do idiotic dodgy transasctions, you're pretty much secure. Oh well - some people have to learn the hard way. I only feel sorry for those who are financially dependent on those who are reckless with their job.

 

[Clip]

I wonder what the ticket office clerk was thinking? It is true that more often than not, ticket inspection staff do not ask to see a Priv when shown the ticket. But to go one further and sell a friend who is not entitled a Priv ticket is just stupid.

It is very difficult to get sacked from a ticket office. So long as you don't steal the money, abuse the customers or do idiotic dodgy transasctions, you're pretty much secure. Oh well - some people have to learn the hard way. I only feel sorry for those who are financially dependent on those who are reckless with their job.

I cant see anything in the OP that claims his mate was a clerk who sold it to him. Couldve been a staff member buying on behalf of him. Which was what I was trying to say..

 

[RJ]

I see. So it could have been offered from a ticket seller, or a naughty member of staff offering to buy it on their behalf. Either way, somebody is probably going to get in trouble!

 

[IanXC]

I see. So it could have been offered from a ticket seller, or a naughty member of staff offering to buy it on their behalf. Either way, somebody is probably going to get in trouble!

I suppose the other option is that the genuine purchaser of the PRIV ticket lost it/threw it away/whatever, and its subsequently been found and resold.

 

[6Gman]

The OP's original post was a little vague, perhaps deliberately so!

There seem a number of possible back stories, none of which look very good!

1. Somebody in a ticket office sold a PT rate ticket to someone not entitled.
2. Somebody entitled to a PT ticket passed it on to a friend (which is how I read the OP).

The other possibilities - of lost/stolen tickets being used seem less likely.

 

[Gemz91]

Are we for sure that a member of rail staff bought their friend a discounted ticket?

I'd assume the majority of railways staff know the risk of doing this. How ever, I wouldnt put it past the child of a member of railway staff using their priv to buy a friend a discounted ticket, unaware of the trouble they could land their parents in.

 

[6Gman]

Are we for sure that a member of rail staff bought their friend a discounted ticket?

I'd assume the majority of railways staff know the risk of doing this. How ever, I wouldnt put it past the child of a member of railway staff using their priv to buy a friend a discounted ticket, unaware of the trouble they could land their parents in.

I don't think we are sure of anything! But from the OP's comment about their friend "not wanting to drop their source in it" I assume that either:

a) a PT holder bought the ticket then passed it over (but without the PT card)

or

b) a booking office member of staff sold a PT ticket to someone with no entitlement.

Not sure there's much else can be said without further details.

 

[island]

There could perhaps have been an error. My Gold Card was somehow mistaken for a Priv at a Southeastern station once.

 

[RPI]

Saying it wasn't them will require them to send some photographic ID to the TOC, if it is just ignored then a summons will be sent, if that is ignored then the case will go to court in the absence of the offender. If it was just as simple as replying to the letter saying it wasn't them then every Tom, Dick and Harry would do it! And it they do say it wasn't them and the TOC or court prove otherwise then they will be looking at a charge of perverting the course of justice.

 

[route:oxford]

There could perhaps have been an error. My Gold Card was somehow mistaken for a Priv at a Southeastern station once.

Likewise a Network Railcard will occasionally give a Network Rail Staff discount outside the NSE area.

 

[neilmc]

Are we for sure that a member of rail staff bought their friend a discounted ticket?

I'd assume the majority of railways staff know the risk of doing this. How ever, I wouldnt put it past the child of a member of railway staff using their priv to buy a friend a discounted ticket, unaware of the trouble they could land their parents in.

I did this once - my friend's father worked on the railways and, although my friend was too old for a priv ticket at the time, he kindly lent me the pass. We nearly got caught when I was seen to have far more money in my hand than the cost of a ticket to London, but I held my nerve and claimed I hadn't checked the discount.

 

[sarahj]

It does sometimes happen, mainly to new entrants, esp the youngish ones who get led down a path, sometimes by their 'mates' saying you can give us discounts. In my 6 odd years I've seen only 2 cases. One was a conductor who was coming back with too many non issues. Problem was he never had the original, other problem was, they were not eg Brighton to Worthing, but high value long distance first class tickets. They were shown the door, not sure if anything else happened to them. This was only a few months after they had passed out. The other involved missue of the priv.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Likewise a Network Railcard will occasionally give a Network Rail Staff discount outside the NSE area.

Network Rail staff are not entitled to any discounts (unless ex-BR, in which case they are entitled to the same priv discount as TOC staff)

 

[Matt Taylor]

'SWT Alliance' NR staff get Priv rate travel on SWT.