Hello, i really need advice and support. Today i was stopped by a GTR inspector asking me to show my ticket and they scanned and they found out that i was using a 16-17 railcard when i am not supposed to, I am 19. I have been using for 4-5 months now without being caught but this time i was unlucky enough to be caught. I am really concerned on what actions will be taken
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Caught using 16-17 railcard.
- Thread starter Emzinhoo
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You will receive a letter from GTR asking for your account of events. They will no doubt say that they are considering prosecuting you, but in practice they may be willing to offer an out-of-court settlement if you engage with them.
You are unlucky - not to have been caught, but that you weren't stopped in your tracks sooner. As it is, you should be prepared for GTR to want you to pay back the full anytime fare for all the journeys you made fraudulently. I would advise calculating the amount now - it could be substantial.
When the letter arrives, come back for advice.
Thank you very much, what are the chances of being prosecuted exactly?
Welcome to the forum!
Travelling with an invalid ticket is a criminal offence and GTR are within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court should they wish to do so. The good news for you is they are usually prepared to offer and out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.
Waht will happen is that GTR will write to you asking for you version of events. It is very important that you reply to this letter. You might want to mention the following in your reply:
- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
An aggravating factor is that you have done this before over a sustained period of time. My view is that this doesn't make a settlement impossible but it will make it harder and more expensive. GTR will be able to search your online ticket purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to their letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.
If you are offered a settlement the cost tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. Expect the outstanding fare to be charged at the full Anytime fare with no account made for what has alredy been paid. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.
Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
Travelling with an invalid ticket is a criminal offence and GTR are within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court should they wish to do so. The good news for you is they are usually prepared to offer and out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.
Waht will happen is that GTR will write to you asking for you version of events. It is very important that you reply to this letter. You might want to mention the following in your reply:
- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
An aggravating factor is that you have done this before over a sustained period of time. My view is that this doesn't make a settlement impossible but it will make it harder and more expensive. GTR will be able to search your online ticket purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to their letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.
If you are offered a settlement the cost tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. Expect the outstanding fare to be charged at the full Anytime fare with no account made for what has alredy been paid. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.
Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
Mcr Warrior
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@Emzinhoo. What's the typical journey that you've been making for 4/5 months with the (inappropriate) railcard discount claimed?
Also, any reason you don't have a 16-25 railcard, which would possibly allow legitimate savings on future journeys?
Also, any reason you don't have a 16-25 railcard, which would possibly allow legitimate savings on future journeys?
I was going east croydon to gatwick airport.
I was using to obviously save alot more money, tickets are £3 with the child ticket, and it is £10 with the 16-25 one
Mcr Warrior
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@Emzinhoo. Noted what you say.
An undiscounted (one way) Anytime Day Single from East Croydon to Gatwick Airport is £6-20.
You may just get asked to pay this amount plus the £150 fee that @Hadders has mentioned upthread.
However, if the rail company's investigation team check through your ticket purchasing history more diligently (easy enough for them to do, if the inappropriately discounted tickets have all been bought online using the likes of Trainline) the amount they will seek will soon add up once they realise you've been underpaying for some time.
So, potentially 2 x £6.20 for a daily return journey, multiplied by the number of times that the journey has been made per week, multiplied by 20+ weeks.
And no allowance made for amounts paid already for incorrect tickets. You'll also be expected to pay the total amount payable in a single, lump sum.
An undiscounted (one way) Anytime Day Single from East Croydon to Gatwick Airport is £6-20.
You may just get asked to pay this amount plus the £150 fee that @Hadders has mentioned upthread.
However, if the rail company's investigation team check through your ticket purchasing history more diligently (easy enough for them to do, if the inappropriately discounted tickets have all been bought online using the likes of Trainline) the amount they will seek will soon add up once they realise you've been underpaying for some time.
So, potentially 2 x £6.20 for a daily return journey, multiplied by the number of times that the journey has been made per week, multiplied by 20+ weeks.
And no allowance made for amounts paid already for incorrect tickets. You'll also be expected to pay the total amount payable in a single, lump sum.
optimuspr1me
Member
@Emzinhoo can I ask if you’ve received the letter / any update on this?
All cases are different so please continue to post about your case on your own thread.
no still have not received the letter
gray1404
Established Member
It can take upto 6 months so keep an eye on your mail. It is usually much sooner.
When you say you were using a 16/17 Railcard when you shouldn't because you were 19, do you mean you had the discount applied to your ticket but didn't possess a Railcard (because you couldn't obtain one)?, or that you had the discount applied to your ticket but showed a Railcard that had been fraudulently obtained, was fake or somebody else's?
Skimpot flyer
Established Member
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I’m puzzled. TfL quote £6 single for a peak adult Oyster/Contactless fare, and only £3.70 for the adult off-peak fare.
What time(s) of day were you travelling ?
The undiscounted off-peak paper return ticket is only £7.60 !!
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An anytime day return from East Croydon to Gatwick Airport (route any permitted) is £12.30. That will reduce to £12 with a 16-25 Railcard or £6.15 with a 16-17 Saver.
It can take a few months for the letter to arrive. There are usually higher numbers of staff on leave over the Christmas period too so may take a while. I would continue to wait.
Please start your own thread if you require help and we will be happy to assist. We ask for only one case to be discussed in each thread to avoid confusion and experience has taught us that no two cases are ever quite the same.
So i just received the letter and im now worried that i will be prosecuted and sent to court. I am dont know what to do at the moment and how to reply. Any help please. Thank you
Gloster
Veteran Member
I suggest you obscure the reference number.
Thank you bro
See what I wrote in post #4 upthread.
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