Caught sitting in First Class Carriage - gave false address

[thor]

Hi All

I boarded the train from romford to liverpool st this morning. It was a fast train which is only two stops. I sat in First Class as there was no spaces in standard (big mistake)

I hold a valid standard ticket between rmf and liv.St

I got caught half way through the journey.

He took my details. The surname they took is incorrect by one letter at the end. The address i provided is actually not correct but they confirmed it was correct by calling the office.

I am now nervous - inspector said i would receive a letter soon.

Please advice what I can do as i made a big mistake by giving false address.

Would they eventually catch me that i provided wrong info?

thanks

 

[455driver]

So you commited a byelaw offence by sitting in a 1st class seat with a standard class ticket (which does not carry the possibility of a criminal record) and then deliberately gave false details which is a Regulation of Railways offence (which does carry the possibility of a criminal record).

Nothing much you can do until they send you the letter outlining what they are proposing to do, which can take a few months because they are busy dealing with lots of other offenders.

 

[thor]

How can they send me the letter? I gave false details.

Should i call up and tell them?

 

[maniacmartin]

Do you have access to any post at the address you provided that is not correct? Are you associated with that address in any way?

 

[thor]

Do you have access to any post at the address you provided that is not correct? Are you associated with that address in any way?

Nope not at all associated with that address.

 

[455driver]

How did they confirm the address as correct if it wasnt?
Do you know somebody at that address and gave their details?
You do realise how serious this will be if they do get your correct details dont you?

It does sound as if you have just come on here to brag about how clever you have been!

 

[thor]

How did they confirm the address as correct if it wasnt?
Do you know somebody at that address and gave their details?

You do realise how serious this will be if they do get your correct details dont you!

The address is a real address but not associated with me. They called up the office to check if the post code was valid.
I dont know anyone at that address.

Yes i know how serious it is

 

[TheEdge]

If they do manage to find you again there will be no chance of any settlement or leniency. I would expect AGA to push for as much as possible, up to and including a criminal record.

For the legal eagles on here. Given an RoRA offence carries a criminal record can it in theory be passed to the police and arrest warrants issued?

 

[Geronimo]

How can they send me the letter? I gave false details.

Should i call up and tell them?

Are you mad?

To elaborate, how likely is it you can be found using the information you have provided (1 letter modified name+false address)? For instance you might have a very unusual name, or the address you gave might a have link. If the answer is "very unlikely", then just hide (you might also want to avoid the train, or at least modify your appearance, for a while).
Caveat: It would be moral to discreetly check at the false address you gave to see if by any coincidence someone with a similar name lives there. In the affirmative (unlikely I guess), you have unwittingly landed someone in the brown stuff and you have a tough decision to make.

 

[Wolfie]

It may be a silly question but what sort of ticket does the OP have? If it is a season ticket he could be traced very easily indeed and is then right in the brown smelly stuff.....

 

[thor]

It may be a silly question but what sort of ticket does the OP have? If it is a season ticket he could be traced very easily indeed and is then right in the brown smelly stuff.....

I do have a season ticket. But the inspector didnt take the photocard number.

The address has not link to me at all.

I am in deep S***. I think i may just got to the ticket office and hand my self in!

 

[Geronimo]

How did they confirm the address as correct if it wasnt?

That is an interesting point.
I have a suspicion that in _some_ cases, no real checks are being carried, as the simple mention of a check will freak people out and make them admit to giving a false address anyway. In the same vein, I also suspect that many people are being caught short-faring by made-up blockades.

You do realise how serious this will be if they do get your correct details dont you?

The real question in order to help the OP to make a decision, is how much more serious it would be than if he volunteers his correct details (and whether that difference outweighs the likelihood of being detected). My intuition is not that much, but my knowledge is limited to reading posts here.

An interesting game-theoretical problem (one I'm glad not to have).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It may be a silly question but what sort of ticket does the OP have? If it is a season ticket he could be traced very easily indeed and is then right in the brown smelly stuff.....

Good points. In her analysis, the OP should also consider whether the ticket was confiscated or identified (scanned/photographed, number taken ...), and whether it was paid cash, or with a card that can be traced back (whether a prosecution dpt would have the capacity to do that I have no idea -I suspect they could-).

 

[thor]

The ticket wasn't confiscated or identified (scanned/photographed)

I pay for my season ticket with card but like i said the inspector didnt take not of this season ticket number. Just made a note to say that i have a valid rmf to liv.st ticket.

 

[jon0844]

Just don't travel again. If you're recognised by the same RPI, you're in deep s**t. Might be time to start a thread about the value of your season ticket when refunded as the train may soon cease to be a usable form of transport for you.

 

[Geronimo]

I do have a season ticket. But the inspector didnt take the photocard number.

The address has not link to me at all.

I am in deep S***. I think i may just got to the ticket office and hand my self in!

Please read other threads about false address first to form a better opinion. You might also want to wait for expert comments to guesstimate realistic odds.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just don't travel again. If you're recognised by the same RPI, you're in deep s**t. Might be time to start a thread about the value of your season ticket when refunded as the train may soon cease to be a usable form of transport for you.

I have read this sort of threats here before. How does that work exactly? (I don't see how it can be enforced after a while when CCTV records are gone)

 

[455driver]

I do have a season ticket. But the inspector didnt take the photocard number.

Are you 100% certain that they didnt note it down anywhere?
Did they look at the ticket?
Ids the number easy to remember?

The address has not link to me at all.

Which shows intent as you deliberately gave false details, it does sound as if this was all rehearsed 'just in case' you got caught at any time.
A genuine but unconnected address certainly isnt something I could think up on the spur of the moment.

I am in deep S***. I think i may just got to the ticket office and hand my self in!

Yes you are if they find you, they might not and all you will have to do in the mean time is dread any letter arriving in the next 6 months or so asking you to attend Court 'just in case' they get your details.

Never mind a can of worms this could be a garden full!
You might get away with it but having a season ticket means you travel regularly (do you commute on the line on which you were caught) so there is a chance that the RPI will see you again some time in the future, do you think they will forget you or is there a chance that he could remember you?

 

[thor]

I am pretty sure he didnt take note of the ID number. But he did look at the ticket to check my name, where my surname is spelt ever so slightly different by one letter. I do have a unusual surname. EDIT Surname is spelt correctly on the ticket. But inspector wrote it down wrong.
Not sure if he memorised the number though.

I did have a address memorised yes! but it was not for this intent.

Today i took a fast train that only runs a few times during the day from romford - which has first class.

I usually travel on the train which stops at all stations runs more frequently and doesnt have firstclass.

He may remember me who knows. But its the first time ever in my time travelling this route i have been asked to show ticket.

Whats your best advice? Can i call them up and say that i am not living at that address and this is my new address? Would that help?

I appreciate all help!

 

[455driver]

I did have a address memorised yes! but it was not for this intent.

Why would you have an unconnected address memorised?
What purpose could it serve except to deceive?

Actually dont answer that, I dont think I want to know!

Whats your best advice? Can i call them up and say that i am not living at that address and this is my new address? Would that help?

I couldnt advice one way or another, if you do nothing you might get away with it, they might trace you and throw the book at you in Court or anything in between.
If you voluntarily give them your correct details they might just go back to the penalty fare and forget the rest of it, they might prosecute you to the full extent of the law anyway or anything in between.

There are many others on here who will be better placed to advice you from a legal standpoint but things like this can never be black and white as to what will happen.
Only you can make that decision.

 

[Geronimo]

I do have a unusual surname.

OK, that might be the decider.

Can you try to identify your address from that name (and relevant city/town), using commonly available databases? (just google, Bt phonebook, whitepages ...). You probably don't need to register for the fancy ones.
Important, also use a relevant paper phone book (to account for that last letter error) to see if it is at all possible to establish a link.

If it is unique (or almost unique), then identification is likely, and you are probably better off by contacting them first. Not good, but an out of court settlement is likely to be more possible than if they have to find you.

Edit:
Thinking of it, they have the name that is on your season ticket, including the spelling mistake. You say it is unusual, so they very likely will be able to link through that. I am really no expert on season ticket, and I guess it depends whether it is a weekly or a yearly, but can they get your real address through that? Did you have to fill a form with your address to get your season ticket?

 

[DarloRich]

Morally you should hand yourself in and take your punishment like a man.

In the real world...............................

 

[thor]

OK, that might be the decider.

Can you try to identify your address from that name (and relevant city/town), using commonly available databases? (just google, Bt phonebook, whitepages ...). You probably don't need to register for the fancy ones.
Important, also use a relevant paper phone book (to account for that last letter error) to see if it is at all possible to establish a link.

If it is unique (or almost unique), then identification is likely, and you are probably better off by contacting them first. Not good, but an out of court settlement is likely to be higher than if they have to find you.

Hi Thanks for your advice so far. Much appreciated!

I have tested what you said.

I cannot identify my correct address with that surname. However i do change to correct surname it comes up instantly.

 

[Geronimo]

I cannot identify my correct address with that surname. However i do change to correct surname it comes up instantly.

1/ It comes up and it is unique?
2/ Is the error obvious or semi-obvious and could it be found by someone,trying a few approximations?
3/ Does your real name appears nearby where the false one would appear in a phone directory (not necessarily you, just the surname)

4/ When you applied for your season ticket, did you have to fill a form with your address? (They have the wrong name as written on your ticket)

 

[thor]

1/ It comes up and it is unique?
2/ Is the error obvious or semi-obvious and could it be found by someone,trying a few approximations?
3/ Does your real name appears nearby where the false one would appear in a phone directory (not necessarily you, just the surname)

4/ When you applied for your season ticket, did you have to fill a form with your address? (They have the wrong name as written on your ticket)

1/ Nothing comes up - it says no matches found.
2/ its not obvious no. Its the second to last letter of the surname thats different. To be honest a lot of admins make this mistake with my surname because the incorrect spelling is the logical way you would spell it, if that makes sense.
3/ i have to check a paper phone directory for this not sure.

4/ the season ticket has got my correct spelling - sorry for the confusion but the inspector wrote it down incorrectly on the form he filled out.

 

[TheEdge]

Why are we giving this person advice on how to avoid and get away with both fare evasion and a RoRA contravention?

The disputes section has crossed a line.

thor, do the right thing, admit it to AGA and also save whichever poor person you've unfairly dropped into it from the stress of a random unexpected summons to court.

 

[Haywain]

If the season ticket is anything other than a weekly, there will be a record of its sale on a database somewhere. This may be AGA's database. If there is a record, there will be an address attached to it. And databases tend to have search facilities which can be used with wildcard options to get round spelling errors - having a really unusual surname is a bonus for the person doing the search. So, it could well be just a matter of time before they catch up with you. I'm not going to end this by wishing you good luck.

 

[thor]

Many thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.
I am handing my self in.

 

[Geronimo]

2/ its not obvious no. Its the second to last letter of the surname thats different. To be honest a lot of admins make this mistake with my surname because the incorrect spelling is the logical way you would spell it, if that makes sense.
3/ i have to check a paper phone directory for this not sure.

Second to last sounds bad. It should be pretty easy for them to look at their database in alphabetic order (if your season ticket is in it all, I have no idea, but I think only monthlies and longerare) to spot the similarities.
So it depends whether you are in the season ticket database, and how good it is.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72744

The phone directory is the same idea, an alphabetic list where the correct surname might (or not) stand out.

It also depends at which stage an address/name check is made (obviously incorrectly done by the RPI). Again, I have no idea.

I think it would be prudent to wait until people with real expertise have commented before taking any decision.

 

[6Gman]

Many thanks for all your help. Much appreciated.
I am handing my self in.

Good luck! I cannot help feeling you are doing the right thing.

 

[455driver]

Morally its the right thing to do (and will probably work out for the best in the end) but you had better have a damn good answer to why you had an unconnected but valid address in mind, that could take some explaining.

As you are doing the right thing I will actually wish you good luck with it all, this isnt something I do lightly as a lot of posters will testify to!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Morally its the right thing to do (and will probably work out for the best in the end) but you had better have a damn good answer to why you had an unconnected but valid address in mind, that could take some explaining.

As you are doing the right thing I will actually wish you good luck with it all, this isnt something I do lightly as a lot of posters will testify to!

Yes, I can personally attest to that.

I also echo what 455driver and 6Gman have said, and wish you the best of luck. It might not be the easiest, but it is the most moral way.