Caught short-faring on West Midlands Trains

[plzhelpme]

I have been very stupid and have been purchasing short tickets for a very long time (2 years) probably 2/3 times a week. I got caught by West Midlands railway outside the end station and had tried to purchase a new ticket and they saw and took a picture and details of my other ticket and will be doing a review. I did not confess to anything and said I do usually take the shorter route but had a change of plan. I am worried sick about this I do not want a criminal record I’ve just struggled and tried to save where I can and I am so regretful. I haven’t slept at all and I am so worried about this. I would like to settle this asap.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

More information I would purchase tickets from Duddeston to Birmingham new street and save like £3 per day

 

[Snow1964]

You have been avoiding the correct fare on a massive industrial scale, and have finally been caught.

There is nothing you can do at this stage until they write to you, which is likely to be 3-8 weeks time, but could be longer.

In meantime start saving up, work on assumption if they do make a financial offer (an out of court settlement, which is not a fine), then expect to pay full fare for every journey plus an admin fee (about £150 for time investigating.

They will request your ticketing history, so in meantime you should try and work out how many journeys you have skipped paying full fare (trawl back through your work calendar etc and list them all on a spreadsheet). There was a case recently where a rail company accepted this list and a lumpsum of the back fares (of about 2k), obviously making commercial decision to have the money, not go to court.

However the railway company might decide to prosecute, in which if guilty will get fine, and criminal record, and court imposed surcharges. They only need the one journey where you were caught to charge you.

 

[antharro]

First welcome to the forum, though you probably don't want to be here right now.

Ok, I'll be straight with you; this is somewhat serious. It's not huge in terms of finances but it's repeated evasion over a prolonged period. Let's look at the worst case scenario - you've not paid the correct fare for 312 journeys. (3 journeys a week x 104 weeks). Usually for smaller offences, most of the train companies (Transport for London excepted) are willing to settle out of court for a moderate amount of money. This is serious enough that there is a possibility that you may not be offered an out of court settlement and the case ends up in court. IF it goes to court, I would expect you to be fined and also made to pay costs and compensation. This would result in you having a criminal record, but it is my understanding that it will "expire" after a time - there are others here who are more knowledgable than I am about this, and I expect they will be along later today to clarify.

However. Before you panic about that, you need to realise that you actually don't know what their plans are, and that's because they haven't written to you yet. So you cannot assume they will take any particular course of action or what the outcome will be. I assume you gave the inspector your correct details. If so, then you will receive a letter from either the train company, or the company they use for their investigations, some time in the next six months. That letter will explain exactly what they are accusing you of and under what legislation. Once you have that letter, post all of it here, making sure to redact your personal information and any reference numbers. The forum can then explain your options and advise you as to your best course of action.

For smaller offences, a letter apologising, showing remorse, and asking for an out of court settlement usually gets the job done. It is possible that this will work for you, but we won't know for sure until we see the letter they send you.

In the meantime, there are a couple of things you can do.

1) To prepare you financially, I would suggest that you draw up a spreadsheet listing every single journey where you have not paid the correct fare. Once you have a complete list, work out the cost of those journeys. Go to the National Rail website (or West Midlands website if you prefer) and look up the Anytime Single fare for that journey. Don't use return fares, don't use Off-Peak or Advance fares. The total of those fares is the approximate minimum you can expect to pay if you are offered an out of court settlement. Expect costs of a few hundred on top of that to cover their time and resources.

2) If you are eligible for a railcard to help reduce your costs of travel, buy one now, and ideally a paper one so you can show it even if your phone battery goes flat. It shows that you're making an effort towards making sure you pay the correct fare in the future. See https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/railcards/national-railcards/ or https://www.railcard.co.uk/ .

A couple of commonly asked questions:

Q- Should you contact the train company to try and speed up the process?
A- No. They will be dealing with a lot of cases, and you will get your turn when they get to it. Contacting them will not achieve anything and may actually cause more confusion about your case.

Q- Am I definitely going to prison/court?
A- No. In the vast majority of cases there are many steps before you end up there, and as long as you cooperate and are honest, it's highly likely (but not guaranteed) that you will avoid ending up in court, let alone going to prison.

Q- Do I get a criminal record from an out of court settlement?
A- No. The matter is handled between you and the train company (or the company they use for their investigations).

Q- What else can I do in the meantime?
A- Not much. Until you get that letter, sit tight and try and get on with your life. Easier said than done, I know, but you really don't have much other choice here.

Q- Anything else?
A- I'm sure it goes without saying that you need to be 100% correct with your fares from now on - if they do give you an out of court settlement this time and you evade again, they are not likely to offer it again.

If you have any other questions in the meantime, please do ask them. Do bear in mind that until that letter arrives, you really do have to sit tight and wait.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Others will be along with more advice, I'm sure. But one first question - were these physical tickets or digital tickets? If they were all electronic, then they can trace all your ticket history from the one they've seen. (Physical tickets obviously aren't recorded in that way.)

For people to help, you'll probably need to give fuller information about the stations you go from and to, and say which train company it was who stopped you this time.

If they decide you seem to have been travelling without the proper ticket for such a long time, and you can't persuade them otherwise, then a court case is obviously a strong possibility. If they offer you an out-of-court settlement, so you avoid a court case and a criminal conviction (it's entirely their choice), then if it relates to 2 years' of journeys, it'll be expensive. You're talking of hundreds of individual journeys (counting returns as two trips), and the policy tends to be to ignore the invalid tickets you had, and to get you to pay the full price single anytime fare for every journey (not just the difference between that and what you did pay) ... so that's presumably thousands of pounds; you will know the price of the ticket for the journeys you made, so you can work it out. Then they add a 3-figure sum for their admin in dealing with the case. If they make you such an offer, in lieu of taking you to court, you'd have only a little time to pay it all. (Though a court case isn't guaranteed to be any cheaper.)

Of course they might only pursue you for the one instance, when you were stopped; but you can't rely on it.

On the other hand, if they're convinced you've been doing this for ages, then going directly to a prosecution without any other option has to be a possibility.

 

[plzhelpme]

You have been avoiding the correct fare on a massive industrial scale, and have finally been caught.

There is nothing you can do at this stage until they write to you, which is likely to be 3-8 weeks time, but could be longer.

In meantime start saving up, work on assumption if they do make a financial offer (an out of court settlement, which is not a fine, then expect to pay full fare for every journey plus an admin fee (about £150 for time investigating)

I’m honestly so stupid I just was looking to save a little bit of money and it was definitely not worth it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

First welcome to the forum, though you probably don't want to be here right now.

Ok, I'll be straight with you; this is somewhat serious. It's not huge in terms of finances but it's repeated evasion over a prolonged period. Let's look at the worst case scenario - you've not paid the correct fare for 312 journeys. (3 journeys a week x 104 weeks). Usually for smaller offences, most of the train companies (Transport for London excepted) are willing to settle out of court for a moderate amount of money. This is serious enough that there is a possibility that you may not be offered an out of court settlement and the case ends up in court. IF it goes to court, I would expect you to be fined and also made to pay costs and compensation. This would result in you having a criminal record, but it is my understanding that it will "expire" after a time - there are others here who are more knowledgable than I am about this, and I expect they will be along later today to clarify.

However. Before you panic about that, you need to realise that you actually don't know what their plans are, and that's because they haven't written to you yet. So you cannot assume they will take any particular course of action or what the outcome will be. I assume you gave the inspector your correct details. If so, then you will receive a letter from either the train company, or the company they use for their investigations, some time in the next six months. That letter will explain exactly what they are accusing you of and under what legislation. Once you have that letter, post all of it here, making sure to redact your personal information and any reference numbers. The forum can then explain your options and advise you as to your best course of action.

For smaller offences, a letter apologising, showing remorse, and asking for an out of court settlement usually gets the job done. It is possible that this will work for you, but we won't know for sure until we see the letter they send you.

In the meantime, there are a couple of things you can do.

1) To prepare you financially, I would suggest that you draw up a spreadsheet listing every single journey where you have not paid the correct fare. Once you have a complete list, work out the cost of those journeys. Go to the National Rail website (or West Midlands website if you prefer) and look up the Anytime Single fare for that journey. Don't use return fares, don't use Off-Peak or Advance fares. The total of those fares is the approximate minimum you can expect to pay if you are offered an out of court settlement. Expect costs of a few hundred on top of that to cover their time and resources.

2) If you are eligible for a railcard to help reduce your costs of travel, buy one now, and ideally a paper one so you can show it even if your phone battery goes flat. It shows that you're making an effort towards making sure you pay the correct fare in the future. See https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/railcards/national-railcards/ or https://www.railcard.co.uk/ .

A couple of commonly asked questions:

Q- Should you contact the train company to try and speed up the process?
A- No. They will be dealing with a lot of cases, and you will get your turn when they get to it. Contacting them will not achieve anything and may actually cause more confusion about your case.

Q- Am I definitely going to prison/court?
A- No. In the vast majority of cases there are many steps before you end up there, and as long as you cooperate and are honest, it's highly likely (but not guaranteed) that you will avoid ending up in court, let alone going to prison.

Q- Do I get a criminal record from an out of court settlement?
A- No. The matter is handled between you and the train company (or the company they use for their investigations).

Q- What else can I do in the meantime?
A- Not much. Until you get that letter, sit tight and try and get on with your life. Easier said than done, I know, but you really don't have much other choice here.

Q- Anything else?
A- I'm sure it goes without saying that you need to be 100% correct with your fares from now on - if they do give you an out of court settlement this time and you evade again, they are not likely to offer it again.

If you have any other questions in the meantime, please do ask them. Do bear in mind that until that letter arrives, you really do have to sit tight and wait.

Honestly really praying they settle and sort this quickly

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

Others will be along with more advice, I'm sure. But one first question - were these physical tickets or digital tickets? If they were all electronic, then they can trace all your ticket history from the one they've seen. (Physical tickets obviously aren't recorded in that way.)

For people to help, you'll probably need to give fuller information about the stations you go from and to, and say which train company it was who stopped you this time.

If they decide you seem to have been travelling without the proper ticket for such a long time, and you can't persuade them otherwise, then a court case is obviously a strong possibility. If they offer you an out-of-court settlement, so you avoid a court case and a criminal conviction (it's entirely their choice), then if it relates to 2 years' of journeys, it'll be expensive. You're talking of hundreds of individual journeys (counting returns as two trips), and the policy tends to be to ignore the invalid tickets you had, and to get you to pay the full price single anytime fare for every journey (not just the difference between that and what you did pay) ... so that's presumably thousands of pounds; you will know the price of the ticket for the journeys you made, so you can work it out. Then they add a 3-figure sum for their admin in dealing with the case. If they make you such an offer, in lieu of taking you to court, you'd have only a little time to pay it all. (Though a court case isn't guaranteed to be any cheaper.)

Of course they might only pursue you for the one instance, when you were stopped; but you can't rely on it.

On the other hand, if they're convinced you've been doing this for ages, then going directly to a prosecution without any other option has to be a possibility.

I’m so remorseful so would want to settle if possible and would need help in replying.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

I go from different stations so I haven’t purchased a pass as sometimes I go from one station and come back to another but not on the same route train. I’ve been looking in to this and I could get a zone 4 train pass but that works out more expensive than buying the tickets on a daily basis due to the amount I travel by train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

I do travel from Duddeston most of the time but on the odd occasion where I can’t get a lift I carry on the train

 

[WesternLancer]

I go from different stations so I haven’t purchased a pass as sometimes I go from one station and come back to another but not on the same route train. I’ve been looking in to this and I could get a zone 4 train pass but that works out more expensive than buying the tickets on a daily basis due to the amount I travel by train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

I do travel from Duddeston most of the time but on the odd occasion where I can’t get a lift I carry on the train

as an aside if you go to the Fares Advice part of the forum and describe your travel patterns in a separate thread on there, fares experts will tell you what the best ticket options might be to help you save money legitimately. Might be something they know that you have not thought of doing

 

[randyrippley]

How did you pay for these tickets?
Cash? Card? Online? Ticket machine?

what sort of history trail have you left? that may affect how the rail company handle this

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We see quite a few cases like this on the forum To be blunt, many would argue that someone deliberately evading their fares on an industrial scale doesn't get prosecuted then you have to wonder just how serious a case has to be to end up in court. That said, West Midlands Trains are generally one of the 'better' train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing and it should be possible to arrange a favourable outcome as long as you co-operate with their investigation.

What happens next is that WMT will write to you saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you. The letter will use quite intiidating language. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter in a timely manner and you might want to mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

WMT are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and WMT are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court if they want to.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. WMT will be able to search your online ticket purchase history and while you are not required to incriinate yourself in your reply you can expect them to ask you about other inconsistencies in your tickets either now or at a future date.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will also have to pay an admin fee of at least £150 to reflect WMT's costs in investigating your case. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't normally allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.