Catford loop... And Orpington/Vic drivers

[Metobusfan]

As the stations round the catford loop will be managed by GTR. Will the Sevenoaks drivers from vic and Orpington remain as SE drivers or change to GTR

 

[user15681]

I think, but don't quote me on it, that Orpington will go over to GTR sometime soon. Will try checking or finding out though.

 

[30907]

But isn't the Loop only a small part of Orpington's work?

 

[Class2ldn]

Just because the work is being covered by gtr doesn't mean the drivers will transfer with it lol. They will just lose the work and do other routes. Although I'd be happy of I didn't have to drive to sevenoaks ever again as an gtr driver. Brighton are lucky in that they don't sign it

 

[Yabbadabba]

Just to add another angle on it, South Eastern Tonbridge drivers I still believe work under contract on Southern Trains on the Redhill line and Southern Redhill Drivers work under contract on First Great Western north downs line route. As this saves having a micro depot on the edge of your territory.

 

[LBSCR Times]

And in January, Southern will be providing drivers and stock for some of the GTR services between Brighton and London Bridge.

 

[Metobusfan]

So it be more or less stay as it is then

 

[Yabbadabba]

You'll need an insider for that, some could be TUPED across to GTR or contracts could be signed between the companies that allow some or all of the work to be still undertaken by South Eastern train crew.

 

[tsr]

Just to add another angle on it, South Eastern Tonbridge drivers I still believe work under contract on Southern Trains on the Redhill line and Southern Redhill Drivers work under contract on First Great Western north downs line route. As this saves having a micro depot on the edge of your territory.

Southeastern conductors and drivers do work some trains the London Bridge-Redhill-Tonbridge route to retain route knowledge, but Southern's Redhill drivers'/conductors' depot retains route knowledge for Redhill-Tonbridge as well. As for Southern driving for FGW, you are correct, though it's worth pointing out that there is a FGW conductors' depot at Redhill.

 

[westcoaster]

I think it will stay as it is with shared drivers from both TL and SE driving them, not sure about Saturday and Sunday's think it will still be 465's, earlier this year a load of tonbridge drivers were learning the route herne hill/Denmark hill to Blackfriars to work some sat and Sunday trains, at the moment gillingham drivers are now learning into blackfriars.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think, but don't quote me on it, that Orpington will go over to GTR sometime soon. Will try checking or finding out though.

It's a rumor. Not a shred of evidence to suggest it will become a GTR depot. Certainly not sometime soon™ If you do get any form of confirmation it would be well worth posting back.

But isn't the Loop only a small part of Orpington's work?

Orpington sign : 319, 376, 465/466
Tunbridge Wells > Seveonaks
Sevenoaks > Bedford (Via Catford, Via Loughborough Jn)
Sevenoaks > Vic (all routes), Charing Cross, Cannon Street
Gillingham > Dartford
Dartford > Vic, Charing Cross, Cannon Street (All routes)
Hayes > Charing Cross, Cannon Street

Only Link 1 Sign past Blackfriars and Sevenoaks

Link 1 do a fair amount of work on the loop and north of Blackfriars. I would say the majority of Link 1 work is on the loop. It's also essential for Dartford/Vic and as a Vic diversionary route.

I think it will stay as it is with shared drivers from both TL and SE driving them, not sure about Saturday and Sunday's think it will still be 465's, earlier this year a load of tonbridge drivers were learning the route herne hill/Denmark hill to Blackfriars to work some sat and Sunday trains, at the moment gillingham drivers are now learning into blackfriars.

Weekend work will all be 319's (or so I've heard) and will be pretty much all SE drivers. The route is run by GTR but it is being Driven under the same arrangements as were in place before the franchise changed. I have been reliably informed that the arrangement is expected to run until the franchise ends.

... or contracts could be signed between the companies that allow some or all of the work to be still undertaken by South Eastern train crew.

An agreement is currently in place

 

[Taunton]

Do South Eastern expresses still go round by the Catford Loop sometimes, non-stop to Bromley? It got up to about 50% of such services when Eurostar was running (and I've done the Loop on a Eurostar as well - and we also went by Maidstone East, had a long stand at Swanley, and were over an hour late into Paris), but with firstly these and then many of the Kent expresses diverted to HS1 presumably pressure on the direct line is reduced.

I wonder what the Paris driver made of rumbling through the likes of Ravensbourne?

 

[user15681]

It's a rumor. Not a shred of evidence to suggest it will become a GTR depot. Certainly not sometime soon™ If you do get any form of confirmation it would be well worth posting back.

Indeed, it's only something I've heard (that Oprington, possibly only top link, were being TUPEd over to GTR with other SE depots taking up the work) and may well turn out to be untrue, or something that's changed. No evidence as you say, hence why I said don't quote me on it

The current agreement in place was signed back in July 2008 by (then) FCC and LSER, for each to provide the other with crew when needed. I understand GTR automatically took this on with the new franchise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do South Eastern expresses still go round by the Catford Loop sometimes, non-stop to Bromley?

Non-stop to Bromley there is 1tph in each direction round the loop - Victoria to Gillingham stoppers (to become Victoria to Dover Priory stoppers from January).

 

[ComUtoR]

Indeed, it's only something I've heard (that Oprington, possibly only top link, were being TUPEd over to GTR with other SE depots taking up the work) and may well turn out to be untrue, or something that's changed. No evidence as you say, hence why I said don't quote me on it

The current agreement in place was signed back in July 2008 by (then) FCC and LSER, for each to provide the other with crew when needed. I understand GTR automatically took this on with the new franchise.

With any change of employer I would expect that there is a mandatory notice period. It would be hard to TUPE over just Link 1 (64 lines) and it wouldn't be a fair process either. I'm not even sure that station staff along the route are being transferred to GTR although I have seen new cleaners at Soaks.

There is lots going on with routes etc but the big changes are at other depots. Grove Park have lost the loop work but with it going over to 319's its more than expected.

I am at a loss to understand why the current agreement stayed in place. Yes they are the game company but surely when the service requirements are agreed then SE and GTR will have to deliver them. When SE drop services due to "lack of Drivers" then you have to question if SE drivers providing GTR services should be delivering the SE service commitments. Considering SE are recruiting a hell of a lot of new Drivers I wonder if they could have reduced their recruitment costs by not having the arrangement and freeing up all those Vic and Orpy Drivers.

No doubt the financial arrangements may be a very large incentive. GTR might be paying for those Drivers. Ergo reducing SE costs and being able to invest in employees. Who knows.

Not heard anything about 387 training but I did hear that SE will get 700 training when they come in. As 319's cascade to Northern I personally haven't got the foggiest what will happen on the loop but I suspect 319's on the loop will be the last to get cascaded out. It's a few years away so anything can happen.

*edit* Also worth noting that the loop and the Chatham Main are Maximum 8 Car