Catering on Trains

[Robertj21a]

Blame Network Rail who are actively pursuing more retail and catering in stations.

Many large stations now have the likes of M&S Food and Starbucks which offer high quality food and drink (or at least perceived high quality). At the likes of Manchester Piccadilly you could have a different meal every day for several weeks.

Excellent - first time I've ever seen Starbucks and high quality (albeit perceived) in the same sentence.

 

[Gemz91]

The problem with train catering is that it is simply too expensive for many people, and maybe its not viable to make it any cheaper, but as a result unless your well off or on expenses most people are going to make do with a drink and a snack or a sandwich, or buy before the journey, as I frequently do.

I'm not well off, and don't travel on expenses, and I've never found on board catering expensive, esp not compared to retail outlets on stations. I don't mind paying an extra 50p or so (not even that in some instances) to have a chilled bottle of Coke or can of beer, rather then having a semi warm can I brought from home. In the grand scheme of things, when I take into account the cost of my train ticket, and the money I'm going to spend on where ever it is I'm travelling, the few extra pence I spend in the buffet bar compared to buying in advance (and then having to squeeze it into my bag/faff abut carrying it) is quite minimal.

 

[Qwerty133]

Excellent - first time I've ever seen Starbucks and high quality (albeit perceived) in the same sentence.

It's not infrequent, when marketing is also in the sentence

 

[scotsman]

Would they though?
Dont forget you have the cost of the retail service manager, the costs of the trolleys (and maintenance, certification etc), the base locations costs, management costs, restocking costs etc. A trolley service isnt just the trolley and products.

No idea what it costs to maintain trolleys, but I think you're spot on.

 

[daikilo]

No idea what it costs to maintain trolleys, but I think you're spot on.

Absolultly correct, a trolley has probably at least a 50% cost uplift just for its presence.

But I travelled on what should have been a 4 hour journey this weekend with no catering of any sort.

We left 5 minutes late and lost at least 10 for operational (speed restriction) reasons.

Rumour had it (after at least 2 hours) that the train was now loosing time due boarding overload such that even station times could not be kept. Not exactly surprising for a holiday weekend. As it happened the 3 service personnel were able to congregate beside my seat and exchange findings. It was like, "did anyone tell you this was a peak weekend". Even I knew that. Their ability to provide info on rescheduled connections was to say the least marginal. At one piont I did it faster through the public SNCF website.

SNCF needs to get their regional and on-train host act together.

I would have paid many times over cost for an after sandwich coffee. Just a smile from a troley attendant would have been enough for me to buy, but no.

This journey was in France on a line I know too well.

 

[richardio123]

Excellent - first time I've ever seen Starbucks and high quality (albeit perceived) in the same sentence.

There is even a TGI Fridays at Manchester Piccadilly now

 

[corfield]

It seems a little perverse that station eating options are growing (presumably because they are profitable), yet with train frequencies similarly having increased then people should be spending less time at the station?

On the other hand, waiting at a station is far more "dead" time perception wise than once on the train where you can sit and read/iphone surf whilst knowing you are progressing. The lack of seating at most stations also encourages going to a food place as you can then sit down. Same "push to consume" as pubs "encouraging" standing and loud background noise "encouraging" thirst inducing louder talking...

 

[theshillito]

Maybe one day we'll see something like this? http://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/on-the-train/rail-catering/starbucks.html?WT.ac=hometeaser_Starbucks_takes_to_the_rails._pos3

I'm not even joking (though perhaps not Starbucks). I'd be more willing to buy food on-board trains if it was from an actual recognized brand, especially when it comes to hot food. Places like Greggs, Starbucks, etc are franchises, so making on-board catering a location for a franchise like those would almost definitely increase quality, and prices would likely be comparable to current on-train or station prices.

 

[Crossover]

Do Trans-Pennine offer anything with their First Class ticket?I traveled on it's Trains last Saturday and saw little difference between First and ordinary class there was no trolley on-board either so they had no refreshments included in the price.
What is the benefit of going First Class with Trans-Pennine?First Class seems just an inconvenience too passengers as it prevents the Train using it's full potential capacity at busy times.

Depends on the route, but generally unless you are on an Anglo-Scottish service, there will be no catering at the weekend in any class. On a weekday on the non-Scottish routes, you'll get tea/coffee/biscuits in First Class (as I did on a trip to Newcastle last year) up until about, I believe, 7pm, and then mainly only on the core

Would they though?
Dont forget you have the cost of the retail service manager, the costs of the trolleys (and maintenance, certification etc), the base locations costs, management costs, restocking costs etc. A trolley service isnt just the trolley and products.

I can also only agree with this statement!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Most TOCs use branded food now, most of them seem to sell either Starbucks coffee or Nescafe Azera.

The trouble is, despite their very best efforts, they're still charging £2.50 for a cup of instant coffee, served with those pathetic sachets of "looks like real snot". Give me some real milk with my coffee and I might buy one more regularly.

 

[martynbristow]

I think your discussion needs to be broader if your talking about *improved*
Look at Wetherspoon and some *cough* restaurants.
They've dumbed down to cut costs and make a profit, which is a shame

Until you get rid of this cheap cheap attitude it will keep getting cut.

Virgin have a nice improved selection but its generally prepacked

 

[47802]

I'm not well off, and don't travel on expenses, and I've never found on board catering expensive, esp not compared to retail outlets on stations. I don't mind paying an extra 50p or so (not even that in some instances) to have a chilled bottle of Coke or can of beer, rather then having a semi warm can I brought from home. In the grand scheme of things, when I take into account the cost of my train ticket, and the money I'm going to spend on where ever it is I'm travelling, the few extra pence I spend in the buffet bar compared to buying in advance (and then having to squeeze it into my bag/faff abut carrying it) is quite minimal.

Well I think it depends which retail outlets you use on or nearby the station, I'm more likely to get a coffee from Mac's than Costa bomb if available. But I think you are missing my point, yes in the grand scheme of things paying a bit extra for a cup of coffee isn't a big deal, however if you are buying a lot more and possibility a meal then it potentially becomes a lot more expensive, which is why the majority or passengers will put up with a trolley or small Buffet, because most will only be prepared to pay the extra costs for a drink and a snack.

 

[bb21]

Most TOCs use branded food now, most of them seem to sell either Starbucks coffee or Nescafe Azera.

The trouble is, despite their very best efforts, they're still charging £2.50 for a cup of instant coffee, served with those pathetic sachets of "looks like real snot". Give me some real milk with my coffee and I might buy one more regularly.

... especially when FGW are able to charge "only" £2.30 for proper coffee, and (my favourite) Grand Central £1.90 I think it is.

 

[Be3G]

It seems a little perverse that station eating options are growing (presumably because they are profitable), yet with train frequencies similarly having increased then people should be spending less time at the station?

Perhaps it's something to do with the increasing dominance of Advance tickets, for the use of which passengers will want to arrive early to make sure they're not stung for a new walk-up ticket.

 

[Tibbs]

Can't see anything returning. Rail tickets already very expensive, meals often expensive, space needed for seats, labour intensive etc etc.

Most people are just going to snack, with food/drink bought beforehand.

Indeed - I can't remember the last time I bought anything other than a water and a bag of crisps on a train. I'm in fact not sure I've ever been to the buffet section!

Given the large food offer now on or near most intercity stations, even at station prices it's better to buy off board and consume on the train.

 

[work-traveller]

My gripe with onboard catering is when it comes to you on a trolley. This generally means:

a) Luke warm drinks;
b) Instant coffee;
c) No hot food, or limited options that take a long time to get to you;
d) Catering when the trolley passes you, rather than at your convenience; and
d) No service because the trolley couldn't get down the train.

 

[Parallel]

I'm in two minds about catering on trains.

Firstly I think, as others have mentioned, it's like a downward spiral... Buffet cars not making money = reducing down menu = trolley = less desirable food = less revenue and so on. Then you have other issues, i.e. unreliability of services being available etc. I absolutely agree what others say regarding overall customer experience. It's like how if a clothes shop in a particular location is making a loss, and the company may be choosing to keep it open to allow customers who ordered products online to collect. The same reason for passengers using particular services or operators for the facilities.

It just feels like they need to be a bit smarter with the whole perception of "on board food", especially with the trolleys. Change it up a bit! Introduce deals, i.e. Coffee and a muffin/chocolate for a competitive price. Maybe do some more market research and find out what people actually want to eat on board from a trolley. I.e. hot bacon rolls in the morning (Obviously you'd need something to at least keep them warm) but things like that could be very profitable. I don't see much point in wheeling around some uninspired trolley full of Kitkats and Quavers. If on board railway food comes back in a big way, it would need an extensive marketing campaign to change perceptions, and then the service afterwards would need to be consistent to maintain an image. Also, focusing on services that are usually busier. I.e. even if it's a stopping service, like if are families going to the beach etc. Another alternative could be to run a reduced catering service but with better options. I.e. Staff boards at station X with a basket of pasties or sandwiches with crisps and drinks and then leaves at station Y and then being on the next service to X. In that way you'd catch the passengers doing long distance journeys but save company costs.

The reality is that most catering seems half-arsed at the moment.

Glad to see that FGW's pullman is reportedly doing well. With their travelling chef services probably going soon, the lack of marketing and availability probably didn't help. I'm not familiar with the pricing however.

I do hope the new IEP trains will have some form of shop or catering, especially between cities like Bristol and London or Cardiff and London!

 

[John @ home]

Northern rail doesn't even care for catering! The only trolley service they have is on the Settle- Carlisle. What about the York- Blackpool North, the Leeds- Nottingham or the Sheffield- Scarborough? A trolley service would be nice.

Earlier this month I made a day return trip from Middlesbrough to Whitby. The 2-coach Northern train had a catering trolley in both directions. On the outward leg, it had to operate from a static position due to overcrowding. Returning, it passed through the train 3 times and had a steady trade from about 40 passengers.

 

[47802]

I do think that East Coast IEP ought have at least a small Buffet Car given that they will be working Anglo Scottish Services, perhaps FGW is more debatable the journeys being generally shorter, unless West Country services get IEP.

I've made a couple of trips from Bradford to Blackpool recently and a trolley for at least part of the journey would have been welcome, but at least Gregg's is well placed at Interchange to get a bargain Bacon Roll and Coffee for £2, so I guess you could use the argument to say that at the more major stations at least, there are more outlets these days where you can buy before hand.

I notice that travelling by National Express coach for the first time in many years recently from Leeds to London there were no refreshment facilities on board unlike the last time I travelled, and no refreshment break either despite the journey taking 4 hours. Presumably competition from Megabus and cheap advance train tickets, has pushed them to cut costs and fares.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Anyone noticed XC are now trialling a pre-ordering your food & drink before you travel service? Think it is only offered on the Plymouth-Edinburgh route at present. Seems a a bit limited on food choice e.g. Snack boxes, cream teas etc. but wide range of beers, wines & spirits.

 

[telstarbox]

Anyone noticed XC are now trialling a pre-ordering your food & drink before you travel service? Think it is only offered on the Plymouth-Edinburgh route at present. Seems a a bit limited on food choice e.g. Snack boxes, cream teas etc. but wide range of beers, wines & spirits.

Interesting - http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/catering

 

[Howardh]

Anyone noticed XC are now trialling a pre-ordering your food & drink before you travel service? Think it is only offered on the Plymouth-Edinburgh route at present. Seems a a bit limited on food choice e.g. Snack boxes, cream teas etc. but wide range of beers, wines & spirits.

Who needs food hic???

 

[LateThanNever]

Who needs food hic???

Quite. It's all booze and they don't even give the country of origin of the wine! Mind you, they must have have twigged at last that travelling by XC you'll always need to drown your sorrows...

 

[GatwickDepress]

Quite. It's all booze and they don't even give the country of origin of the wine! Mind you, they must have have twigged at last that travelling by XC you'll always need to drown your sorrows...

"Go First with Arriva CrossCountry - It's Better if You're Bladdered!"

 

[edwin_m]

"Go First with Arriva CrossCountry - It's Better if You're Bladdered!"

Not if the toilets aren't working.

 

[Parallel]

Not if the toilets aren't working.

Perhaps they should get rid of all toilets except one and have people pre-book an available slot to use it at least 24 hours before starting their journey.

 

[Howardh]

Perhaps they should get rid of all toilets except one and have people pre-book an available slot to use it at least 24 hours before starting their journey.

Do a Ryanair that didn't happen - charge a quid to use them! Be an extra "tax" on folks like me that like a beer on a long journey, but could be healthy income for a company in these hard times, and the sweetener could be to not increase fares as much next year!

Mind you...if there's a charge at stations to have a pee, then why not on the train?? Free in first class, of course.

 

[theshillito]

Northern rail doesn't even care for catering! The only trolley service they have is on the Settle- Carlisle. What about the York- Blackpool North, the Leeds- Nottingham or the Sheffield- Scarborough? A trolley service would be nice. Again they would make profits from the trolley. Doesnt make sense at all :-x FTPE seem do do a decent job of theirs!

The thing with Northern Rail is they're mostly a commuter rail service. Should there be food trolleys on MerseyRail? First Capital Connect? London Underground? It's not really appropriate.

It's also worth noting that the trolleys on the Settle-Carlisle line are actually run by "The Settle Carlisle Railway Development Company" (link to trolley timetable), not Northern Rail. That line is actually characteristically-off for them, as it's less of a commuter line and more of a heritage line, which is why the trolleys are appropriate here.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

II notice that travelling by National Express coach for the first time in many years recently from Leeds to London there were no refreshment facilities on board unlike the last time I travelled, and no refreshment break either despite the journey taking 4 hours. Presumably competition from Megabus and cheap advance train tickets, has pushed them to cut costs and fares.

Maybe the Divine Comedy's description of the hostess lead to a downturn in usage.

 

[GarethJohn]

Do a Ryanair that didn't happen - charge a quid to use them! Be an extra "tax" on folks like me that like a beer on a long journey, but could be healthy income for a company in these hard times, and the sweetener could be to not increase fares as much next year!

Mind you...if there's a charge at stations to have a pee, then why not on the train?? Free in first class, of course.

Would guards, drivers, on-train cleaners and be able to claim the £1 back?