Catching earlier connection with AP ticket

[trainophile]

I arrived at Crewe today 2 minutes before a LM train from the adjacent platform was due to depart for Liverpool. However the timed ticket I'd been issued as part of my Hereford to Southport journey wasn't due for another 27 mins. I asked the guard and she kindly allowed me to take the earlier one which saved waiting around.

Is there any way of specifying a shorter than the default connection time? Or as this could be dodgy if delays occur, what's the general view on taking an earlier one if circs permit, given we don't choose our onward connections, only our initial departure time?

 

[ainsworth74]

If you didn't hold a reservation for a specific train from Crewe onwards then I would say there is no issue using an earlier train however if you do hold a reservation for the journey beyond Crewe then it is up to the Guards discretion to let you travel on that early train as by the conditions of the ticket you are supposed to travel on booked trains only. That is my interpretation at least, others may well differ from mine.

 

[cuccir]

You can certainly extend it but I don't think there are options to reduce; certainly, not below the advertised connection times.

As for catching an earlier train - if you are there, then ask the guard. I'd suspect most would let you on, particularly outside of peak or on branch lines. I wouldn't just get on though.

 

[Wolf_359]

All websites have the absolute minimum connection time set as default. These are taken from National Rail which has set minimum times for different scenarios.

Examples:

Cross London via tube minimum connection time is 45 Minutes.
Interchange at a major station is 10 minutes.
Interchange at a smaller station is 5 minutes.

These are set in stone as minimum times so cannot be reduced any further.

 

[moonrakerz]

I have never been refused permission to travel on an earlier than booked train - just by asking the guard before boarding..............

 

[Failed Unit]

As others have said on a non-reserved part no problem. Take London - Stirling. London trains arrive at about 25 mins past the hours. The 33 minutes past the hour is below the minimum at Waverley, if you make it the gaurd won't bat an eyelid as you have an east coast and connections ticket. In fact they don't even care if you have hung around Waverley for a while.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for the replies. I don't suppose this situation arises very often, but if guards are prepared to be accommodating when the earlier train isn't in a peak period or already crowded, then that's good.

I just wondered whether most guards would oblige in this way, or whether I just got lucky today.
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As others have said on a non-reserved part no problem. Take London - Stirling. London trains arrive at about 25 mins past the hours. The 33 minutes past the hour is below the minimum at Waverley, if you make it the gaurd won't bat an eyelid as you have an east coast and connections ticket. In fact they don't even care if you have hung around Waverley for a while.

On this occasion I was issued with a timed reservation as part of my overall journey. That's why it was a bit dodgy. I got to Liverpool South Parkway half an hour early as a result of being allowed on the earlier train, and didn't worry for a minute about getting an earlier Merseyrail from there, because I had no timed ticket for that leg of the journey.

It cut half an hour off my overall trip, meaning I did Hereford to Southport in three hours, which was great.

 

[Flamingo]

I have never been refused permission to travel on an earlier than booked train - just by asking the guard before boarding..............

We've never met, then

 

[Ferret]

We've never met, then

LOL! I've got to say I'm not inclined to allow earlier travel on Advance tickets either. A family with a visibly sick child were the recipients of some discretion once, but apart from that I can't think of many other occasions!!! Ah, one other - train 30 mins behind me was late so pax were going to miss an East Coast connection if they waited for that train. I allowed them to take mine - but then they were still picking up their booked train eventually so didn't gain out of it.

For the main part though - it's a reduced rate ticket for a reason. Want the flexibility to use earlier trains, then you know what type of ticket to select....

 

[Flamingo]

My stock reply is "I'll have to take some more money off you, at least £10 for changing plus the difference in price".

Most walk away, some say OK.

Obviously, I'll be more lenient with OAP's, small kids or obviously sick, and have been in the past.

"My meeting finished early" or "My flight landed early" doesn't cut any ice!

If the next train is cancelled or delayed, that's a different kettle of fish, and I'll do my best to make sure that the passengers get to their destination for their due arrival time.

 

[trainophile]

"My meeting finished early" or "My flight landed early" doesn't cut any ice!

How about "I just got off my booked train on the first leg of my journey, and see I have time to catch a connection that is earlier than the one on my ticket for the second leg, so why should I have to wait around when there is a suitable train already in the station and about to depart?"

 

[Flamingo]

How about "I just got off my booked train on the first leg of my journey, and see I have time to catch a connection that is earlier than the one on my ticket for the second leg, so why should I have to wait around when there is a suitable train already in the station and about to depart?"

"Tough. You bought a cheaper non-flexible ticket, so go away and drink coffee for half an hour."

(I'd probably phrase it a bit different if you could see my name-badge, but that's the gist of it)

 

[trainophile]

"Tough. You bought a cheaper non-flexible ticket, so go away and drink coffee for half an hour."

(I'd probably phrase it a bit different if you could see my name-badge, but that's the gist of it)

Ah well, you don't work Crewe do you?

I'd have thought they would prefer to de-clutter the platforms and keep the flow of travellers moving, but there you go. I would stay put and drink my own coffee btw, not paying railway prices!
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"My meeting finished early" or "My flight landed early" doesn't cut any ice!

Btw I agree that these are valid refusals if it was the commencement of the journey for which the ticket applies, but as a half-way connection it seems a bit jobsworth (if you don't mind me saying so ).

 

[Flamingo]

Crewe? Where's that? (I've heard it said that to go to Hell you have to change at Crewe)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ah well, you don't work Crewe do you?

I'd have thought they would prefer to de-clutter the platforms and keep the flow of travellers moving, but there you go. I would stay put and drink my own coffee btw, not paying railway prices!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Btw I agree that these are valid refusals if it was the commencement of the journey for which the ticket applies, but as a half-way connection it seems a bit jobsworth (if you don't mind me saying so ).

Flip side is, if it's a half-way connection, I never query why they are on a later train.

Anyway, cluttered platforms don't bother me, in the same way that crowded trains don't bother Platform staff!

 

[WestCoast]

UK guards would love the system in Belgium (well, maybe not). If you haven't got a ticket or have got the wrong one you have to speak to the guard before boarding and you agree a price a bit like an advance taxi fare (usually the full fare subject to a small supplement).

If passengers just get on you can levy a larger supplement to any ticket...

 

[Flamingo]

UK guards would love the system in Belgium (well, maybe not). If you haven't got a ticket or have got the wrong one you have to speak to the guard before boarding and you agree a price a bit like a deal (usually subject to a small supplement).

If passengers just get on you can levy a larger supplement to any ticket...

Sounds fair enough. It's the passengers who think they don't have to pay any levy at all that are the problem...

 

[yorkie]

I just wondered whether most guards would oblige in this way, or whether I just got lucky today.

Most LM guards on this route? or quite simply most guards (out of all the guards on all routes in the UK)? You have recieved responses here from guards who work what you could consider 'InterCity' services. You encountered a guard who operates what could be considered a 'regional' service. I am therefore not surprised their views differ to what you experienced.

 

[Failed Unit]

Most LM guards on this route? or quite simply most guards (out of all the guards on all routes in the UK)? You have recieved responses here from guards who work what you could consider 'InterCity' services. You encountered a guard who operates what could be considered a 'regional' service. I am therefore not surprised their views differ to what you experienced.

I would concur with that, the regional train with no reservations has no evidence of what train you should be on. You get a ticket and reservations where required but how would the Scotrail gaurd know you are on a train 30 minutes earlier than the one suggested. They don't need to see your reservation for the IC leg. you have handed them a valid ticket. On regional services with reservations such as TPE the guard will want to see a reservation and may make you wait until your booked time between Leeds and Huddersfield.

 

[trainophile]

Doesn't Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street count as InterCity then?

Presumed it is, and that's why it gave me a timed "seat reservation" (no coach or seat shown, just * **).

Seems to be an exceptionally frequent service for an InterCity, approx twice hourly, hence the situation in discussion.

I'll give you guys a break and agree that in theory I have no "right" to get on the train before the one shown on my ticket, but as it can obviously happen it's interesting to understand the potential outcome. I expect some people would simply check the destination board and, if it goes where they are going, get on the train without even being aware that this is not the train specified on their onward ticket. When I write down the details from my online booking I do include times, but some might just jot down connection points.

 

[Deerfold]

Seems to be an exceptionally frequent service for an InterCity, approx twice hourly, hence the situation in discussion.

I'm having trouble thinking of any InterCity routes that are less frequent except on the fringes of their routes.

Manchester - London 3tph
Birmingham - London 3tph
Birmingham - York 2tph
Leeds - London 2tph
York - London 2-3 tph
ah, Liverpool - London 1tph

 

[Buttsy]

If the next train is cancelled or delayed, that's a different kettle of fish, and I'll do my best to make sure that the passengers get to their destination for their due arrival time.

Wish I'd known that once as waiting at Oxford for the 17:30 train north (I was heading to Arnside with a NW Rover valid from Wigan NW) with 20min connection @ Birmingham, the earlier (17:00) Cross Country (might have been Virgin thinking about it) pulled in 15 mins late. The screens said that the one I was booked on was on time, so waited for that one.

Ran late into BHM and guard said to stay on this train and change at Tamworth. Did so, 45 min wait there. Evenually got to Preston, waited 45 mins there. On way to Lancaster, wires pulled down by southbound Freightliner. Hit Lancaster at 00:30. Eventually taxi arranged to get us to Barrow line stations. Got to Arnside at 02:00.

If I'd asked the guard on the earlier train, would have probably got to Arnside about 21:00-21:30. D'OH!

 

[Deerfold]

Ran late into BNS and guard said to stay on this train and change at Tamworth.

The train went via Barnes!?

Or did you mean New Street?