Castlefield Viaduct park (Manchester Metrolink)

[eaet]

The existing National Trust "park" on part of the unused Castlefield viaduct is to be extended and made permanent.
Was there ever any realistic possibility of an expanded tram service running over this, or are there structural/other reasons it would never have been possible?

I'm aware there are other bottlenecks on the present Cornbrook-St Peter's Square stretch but just wondered if this is a potentially short sighted decision that could be a barrier to future expansion, or reuse of otherwise unusable infrastructure

 

[Russel]

Does this still close quite early in the afternoon?

Last time I tried to visit was August 23 and it was closed when I got there at just gone 3pm.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does this still close quite early in the afternoon?

Last time I tried to visit was August 23 and it was closed when I got there at just gone 3pm.

Closed all day on Mondays and Tuesdays according to the National Trust itself, but should be open 10 am until 5 pm on the other five days of the week that it's supposedly open.

Link to NT website...

Castlefield Viaduct | Manchester

A historic Grade II listed viaduct turned urban park in the heart of Manchester.

www.nationaltrust.org.uk

P.S. Anyone able to advise whether that section of the Castlefield viaduct was ever in scope for possible use by the Metrolink?

 

[Russel]

Closed all day on Mondays and Tuesdays according to the National Trust itself, but should be open 10 am until 5 pm on the other five days of the week that it's supposedly open.

Link to NT website...

Castlefield Viaduct | Manchester

A historic Grade II listed viaduct turned urban park in the heart of Manchester.

www.nationaltrust.org.uk

P.S. Anyone able to advise whether that section of the Castlefield viaduct was ever in scope for possible use by the Metrolink?

It was certainly before 5 when I tried to visit as I got the 5.30 XC back to Birmingham, I'll have to try again next time I'm in the area,

 

[edwin_m]

Opening for Metrolink has been discussed over the years, but a two-track tramway on reserved formation has more capacity that two two-track tramways in a street environment where they have to stop for traffic signals and vehicles or pedestrians in front. Many years ago I calculated that a fully-reserved track could carry a tram every 15 seconds whereas a street tramway is limited to about one every 40 seconds. Agreed the platforms at Deansgate-Castlefield and Cornbrook would reduce throughput below four per minute, but extra platform tracks would have to be added before there was any need to consider extra tracks between them.

There's no credible place that trams could continue into the city centre from their elevated alignment at Deansgate-Castlefield other than where they go now, feeding them into the two city centre routes. There is talk of a tram tunnel under the city, but I think that would have to go out to somewhere near Cornbrook. And I believe the parallel viaduct has suffered over the years so it is able to support the weight of plants and visitors but would need a lot of work to carry trams.

 

[507 001]

There was never any possibility of it reopening for rail traffic.

 

[eaet]

There was never any possibility of it reopening for rail traffic.

Is that structural or just how it would fit into the rest of the existing/future network?

 

[507 001]

Is that structural or just how it would fit into the rest of the existing/future network?

Both.

 

[eaet]

Opening for Metrolink has been discussed over the years, but a two-track tramway on reserved formation has more capacity that two two-track tramways in a street environment where they have to stop for traffic signals and vehicles or pedestrians in front. Many years ago I calculated that a fully-reserved track could carry a tram every 15 seconds whereas a street tramway is limited to about one every 40 seconds. Agreed the platforms at Deansgate-Castlefield and Cornbrook would reduce throughput below four per minute, but extra platform tracks would have to be added before there was any need to consider extra tracks between them.

There's no credible place that trams could continue into the city centre from their elevated alignment at Deansgate-Castlefield other than where they go now, feeding them into the two city centre routes. There is talk of a tram tunnel under the city, but I think that would have to go out to somewhere near Cornbrook. And I believe the parallel viaduct has suffered over the years so it is able to support the weight of plants and visitors but would need a lot of work to carry trams.

Thank you for this

 

[AlastairFraser]

Opening for Metrolink has been discussed over the years, but a two-track tramway on reserved formation has more capacity that two two-track tramways in a street environment where they have to stop for traffic signals and vehicles or pedestrians in front. Many years ago I calculated that a fully-reserved track could carry a tram every 15 seconds whereas a street tramway is limited to about one every 40 seconds. Agreed the platforms at Deansgate-Castlefield and Cornbrook would reduce throughput below four per minute, but extra platform tracks would have to be added before there was any need to consider extra tracks between them.

There's no credible place that trams could continue into the city centre from their elevated alignment at Deansgate-Castlefield other than where they go now, feeding them into the two city centre routes. There is talk of a tram tunnel under the city, but I think that would have to go out to somewhere near Cornbrook. And I believe the parallel viaduct has suffered over the years so it is able to support the weight of plants and visitors but would need a lot of work to carry trams.

Wouldn't a south westerly branch of the tram tunnel join the CLC to run stoppers out towards Warrington anyway, rather than extra Metrolink services?

 

[edwin_m]

Wouldn't a south westerly branch of the tram tunnel join the CLC to run stoppers out towards Warrington anyway, rather than extra Metrolink services?

I don't know what is planned, but if they go for a Metrolink tunnel then one option might be south-west to north-east.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I don't know what is planned, but if they go for a Metrolink tunnel then one option might be south-west to north-east.

Although I think you'd need several branches on each side - remember that TfGM would like to convert the Rose Hill Marple branch to tram-train, and that would need to have a south east facing portal out of Manchester City Centre.
Same with the western end - the CLC can only take so much - maybe 6tph, and the Atherton line has been mooted for tram-train conversion too, so a north-western portal would be needed for that.

 

[edwin_m]

Although I think you'd need several branches on each side - remember that TfGM would like to convert the Rose Hill Marple branch to tram-train, and that would need to have a south east facing portal out of Manchester City Centre.
Same with the western end - the CLC can only take so much - maybe 6tph, and the Atherton line has been mooted for tram-train conversion too, so a north-western portal would be needed for that.

You may be right, but it's off-topic for this thread. The key point is that it's most unlikely there would be a portal that would allow any use of the extra viaduct between Deansgate-Castlefield and Cornbrook.

 

[AlastairFraser]

You may be right, but it's off-topic for this thread. The key point is that it's most unlikely there would be a portal that would allow any use of the extra viaduct between Deansgate-Castlefield and Cornbrook.

Agreed - no room at the Bridgewater Hall end of the viaducts.