Cashless Society ?

[lookapigeon]

Not to mention giving your mate a tenner for a taxi, or splitting the bill at a restaurant!

One situation where cash is incredibly fiddly (i need change so swap this note with that, i need coins etc), yet people seem to have the perception that paying a split bill by card in a restaurant is frowned upon.

If you pay by card then you can pay what you ordered or what your bit of the split quickly and easily, without having to hang around. Card - enter amount, enter pin, done. And leave notes/coins for a tip.

I can't believe people don't have any bank accounts, driving licenses or passports though. Surely such people must be in a minority, given that most people do travel abroad (at some point in 10 years), drive (or are in the process of learning or have it to use it as ID at bars/pubs/clubs) and receive income of some sort!? Even basic bank accounts come with debit cards these days.

Cash has its purpose but it has had its day.

When I worked in a store, I hated cashing up at the end of the day and balancing all of the tills, because of the amount of time it would take, and no doubt some would be over or under. Also, was the amount of time wasted having to count each bag of coinage (the company was too cheap to invest in scales).

Cards were easy, press some buttons, key in some codes and swipe a card on the card machine and the end of day banking was done!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Cash has its purpose but it has had its day.

Just takes a power failure or a system to 'go down' and your cards become instantly worthless. I think cash will be around long after the cards have had their day.

 

[richw]

Even basic bank accounts come with debit cards these days.

No they don't, to receive a debit card you have to have a credit check, otherwise they issue you with a atm only card. The credit rating required to receive a debit card is very low on the scale, although about 10% of the UK population do not meet the criteria to receive one. I myself was surprised by this!

 

[SS4]

Just takes a power failure or a system to 'go down' and your cards become instantly worthless. I think cash will be around long after the cards have had their day.

Partially agree, wasn't there a problem earlier this year which ended up in a load of cards being rejected? For some reason Barclays rings a bell. I don't think cash will last longer than card though.

I can't see us ever having a cashless society, paying by card takes a long time compared to paying by cash as long as you and the cashier are numerate of course. There are too many businesses that have minimum purchases for cards or that do not accept card at all.
That's not to say that card does not have it's place, indeed I believe cash and card will coexist for the foreseeable future: the former used for small purchases and backup with the latter used for big ticket purchases.

 

[radamfi]

paying by card takes a long time compared to paying by cash

Seen the new contactless machines in McDonalds and elsewhere? Paying by contactless card is pretty damn quick!

 

[richw]

Seen the new contactless machines in McDonalds and elsewhere? Paying by contactless card is pretty damn quick!

The McDonalds ones are pretty quick even paying by chip and pin compared to most other places!

 

[WelshBluebird]

I seriously doubt cash is in the minority! Probably in terms of revenue (as I would imagine most expensive tickets would be paid for on card prior to travelling). But in terms of actual numbers - no way. Hell, an awful lot of people don't even realise you can use card when you pay on board (which is how you buy a ticket in areas where the stations are unstaffed - such as the south wales valley lines).

Well, you can have a debit card at 11 years old. I'm not entirely sure how many 10 year olds and under use the train,whilst travelling alone, for leisure these days though

1 - Depends on the bank. Certainly Lloyds wouldn't give my gf a debit card until she turned 18. No idea why, but it was just a point blank refusal no matter who she talked to.

2 - Depends on the area, but in areas such as the south wales valleys where trains are often used for short distance travel, then quite a lot.

Or you can just use a debit card?

And if you don't have a debit card?

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

Just takes a power failure or a system to 'go down' and your cards become instantly worthless. I think cash will be around long after the cards have had their day.

No they don't. Retailers can just take a manual imprint of the card using offical equipment. This is how credit cards used to work originally!

"Cards" may change over the decades, but cashless transactions show no sign of reversing the decline of cash, although I do agree cash will certainly exist for the rest of my lifetime, at least.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Partially agree, wasn't there a problem earlier this year which ended up in a load of cards being rejected? For some reason Barclays rings a bell. I don't think cash will last longer than card though.

I can't see us ever having a cashless society, paying by card takes a long time compared to paying by cash as long as you and the cashier are numerate of course. .

That was, and to some extent continues to be true, but the newer machines are extremely fast, easily as fast as a cash transaction requiring change. No longer do I have to try and round the amount up on a petrol pump, just "click", replace pump and pay. Nowadays you don't even have to go inside a lot of petrol stations (usually supermarket ones), just pay at pump. A hell of a lot quick than paying in cash!

 

[island]

No they don't, to receive a debit card you have to have a credit check, otherwise they issue you with a atm only card. The credit rating required to receive a debit card is very low on the scale, although about 10% of the UK population do not meet the criteria to receive one. I myself was surprised by this!

That's not correct for at least some banks. The one I work for offers basic accounts with regular debit cards even if you fail a credit check (although certain customers may get cards that aren't accepted in other banks' ATMs, or that are online use only).

 

[Zoe]

No they don't. Retailers can just take a manual imprint of the card using offical equipment.

Not if the debit card is for electronic use only as some are.

 

[fairysdad]

Not if the debit card is for electronic use only as some are.

Those are mostly debit cards that they do give to children (and the occasional credit-crap adult, depending on bank) like Solo or Visa Electron. Those are the only ones I've seen that are electric-only, and there's still a surprising number of places that don't accept those too (ASDA PFS' for a start...)

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

Not if the debit card is for electronic use only as some are.

Yes, for the few students and people who can't get normal debit cards that may apply, as they are unembossed. But for everyone else, your cards do not become useless if the rare event that a retailer can't accept an electronic payment. If you have an electronic use card, you should be aware of it's limitations anyway, so should not rely on them.

I can't understand why anyone pays with a debit card anyway, credit cards are far superior in the level of protection they offer. Even those with poor credit ratings can get a credit card, and it takes seconds to set up a direct debit to pay the full amount off each month and incur no charges.

 

[SS4]

I can't understand why anyone pays with a debit card anyway, credit cards are far superior in the level of protection they offer. Even those with poor credit ratings can get a credit card, and it takes seconds to set up a direct debit to pay the full amount off each month and incur no charges.

Can people really be trusted to pay it off in full each and every month though? High levels of debt is a considerable factor to the economic crash.

A much better idea is to extend the protection afforded by credit cards to debit cards but they won't because the banks want us in their debt.

 

[michael769]

I can't understand why anyone pays with a debit card anyway, credit cards are far superior in the level of protection they offer. Even those with poor credit ratings can get a credit card, and it takes seconds to set up a direct debit to pay the full amount off each month and incur no charges.

Not everyone has the discipline to avoid running up large debts that they will struggle to pay if they have a CC in the pocket!

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

Those are mostly debit cards that they do give to children (and the occasional credit-crap adult, depending on bank) like Solo or Visa Electron. Those are the only ones I've seen that are electric-only, and there's still a surprising number of places that don't accept those too (ASDA PFS' for a start...)

Yes exactly, as under 18s can't normally held responsible for debt, so banks must ensure they have the money in their account before authorising a transaction. If a retailer was to be able to imprint the card, the transaction may not go through if there wasn't money in the account.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can people really be trusted to pay it off in full each and every month though? High levels of debt is a considerable factor to the economic crash.

A much better idea is to extend the protection afforded by credit cards to debit cards but they won't because the banks want us in their debt.

Given that you can manage your account online and see what transactions you haved made, set yourself a low limit and set up a direct debit to pay off the full amount it's not that much different to managing your normal debit account.

Can we trust people not to get paid on the last Friday of the month and to blow everything on a debit card by Saturday morning? Or should we have the Government look after our money? A credit card with a £1000 limit is no more likely to be "blown" then when you get paid and have £1000+ in your account.

The only reason you have the protection on a credit card is because the money belongs to the bank and does not get passed on to the retailer straight away. With a debit card, once it's gone out of your account it is far more difficult for the bank to get it back again.

 

[richw]

That's not correct for at least some banks. The one I work for offers basic accounts with regular debit cards even if you fail a credit check (although certain customers may get cards that aren't accepted in other banks' ATMs, or that are online use only).

When iwas 18 I ran up an unauthorised overdraft with Halifax, they withdrew my debit card and issued a cash machine only card. In order to help clear the said overdradt, I opened an account at Barclays, who would only give me a cash machine card.
The overdraft is now clear, and I have debit cards again,

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The "cashless society" argument seems to mirror the "paperless office" argument of the 1970's....but then, you would expect an old cynic like me to bring this into the equation.

 

[island]

I can't understand why anyone pays with a debit card anyway, credit cards are far superior in the level of protection they offer. Even those with poor credit ratings can get a credit card, and it takes seconds to set up a direct debit to pay the full amount off each month and incur no charges.

Actually, you'd be surprised how hard it can be to get a credit card, especially for people who recently moved to the UK.

The only reason you have the protection on a credit card is because the money belongs to the bank and does not get passed on to the retailer straight away. With a debit card, once it's gone out of your account it is far more difficult for the bank to get it back again.

That's also incorrect, I'm afraid. The protection attached to a credit card payment is granted by law (s75 Consumer Credit Act), and the processing system and settlement cycle for credit cards and debit cards is the exact same. Under merchant agreements the bank can reverse ("charge back") the transaction under certain circumstances within 120 days of the transaction.

When iwas 18 I ran up an unauthorised overdraft with Halifax, they withdrew my debit card and issued a cash machine only card. In order to help clear the said overdradt, I opened an account at Barclays, who would only give me a cash machine card.
The overdraft is now clear, and I have debit cards again,

There have been new regulations come in over the past few years requiring banks to offer basic accounts to all-comers.

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

Actually, you'd be surprised how hard it can be to get a credit card, especially for people who recently moved to the UK.

Yes, I would be suprised, considering credit cards like the http://www.vanquis.co.uk/ are specifically designed to rebuild people's credit rating. I'm not especially concerned with a niche group such as recent immigrants, but I guess I should learn to cover all bases on a forum...

That's also incorrect, I'm afraid. The protection attached to a credit card payment is granted by law (s75 Consumer Credit Act), and the processing system and settlement cycle for credit cards and debit cards is the exact same. Under merchant agreements the bank can reverse ("charge back") the transaction under certain circumstances within 120 days of the transaction.

Agreed, I'd forgot to mention the CC Act, but my point was on a debit card, because it's not the bank's money they don't really care, so the chances of getting them to act in anything other than bona-fide fraud cases is slim. Yes, some banks are starting to increase the debit card protection, but it's still not as good as a credit card.

A few years ago, I bought a second hand car described as "the best example of it's type you will find in the country", with a price to match and paid for it, in full, on a credit card. The car turned out to be riddled with faults after using it for awhile. I rang the garage up, and they didn't want to know "Sorry mate, it's 20 year old and you have to expect certain problems with a car like that at that age", and despite me claiming I expected better from "the best example in the country" they didn't want to know.

I contacted the credit card company, filled out some forms, and the garage contacted me to have all the faults repaired if I brought it back to them

You try doing that with a debit card purchase. Yes of course, you can go through the small claims court and the like, but this was a lot quicker and easier, and didn't cost me a penny, with no risk on my part.

 

[richw]

Yes, I would be suprised, considering credit cards like the http://www.vanquis.co.uk/ are specifically designed to rebuild people's credit rating. I'm not especially concerned with a niche group such as recent immigrants, but I guess I should learn to cover all bases on a forum...

I have a vanquis account, as mentioned above about previous debt i had, i have been watching my credit score rocket with the vanquis card. I pay off every month on the day the statement comes through the post, so the 40% APR doesnt affect me in anyway, as no interest if payed before the set day each month. Every 3 months they send me a letter telling me that as i've payed off on time each month, either the interest rate has fallen, or the credit limit can raise if i wish. Started with a £250 limit, and 48.9% APR, now down to 39.5% APR and a £1500 limit. My credit rating has gone from low end of poor, to the middle of the Fair grouping now in 2 years.

 

[radamfi]

I got £600 from an Alliance & Leicester debit card through a chargeback when Zoom Airlines went bust a couple of years ago.

 

[island]

I got £600 from an Alliance & Leicester debit card through a chargeback when Zoom Airlines went bust a couple of years ago.

That is to be reasonably expected; most banks will help their customers out in these situations. Do bear in mind there are no chargebacks on Maestro, Solo, or Electron cards.

 

[radamfi]

That is to be reasonably expected; most banks will help their customers out in these situations. Do bear in mind there are no chargebacks on Maestro, Solo, or Electron cards.

Yes, lucky I used a Visa Debit card.

 

[WestCoast]

Yes, lucky I used a Visa Debit card.

Yes, and a good job too, as I remember, Zoom had many creditors!

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

I have a vanquis account, as mentioned above about previous debt i had, i have been watching my credit score rocket with the vanquis card. I pay off every month on the day the statement comes through the post, so the 40% APR doesnt affect me in anyway, as no interest if payed before the set day each month. Every 3 months they send me a letter telling me that as i've payed off on time each month, either the interest rate has fallen, or the credit limit can raise if i wish. Started with a £250 limit, and 48.9% APR, now down to 39.5% APR and a £1500 limit. My credit rating has gone from low end of poor, to the middle of the Fair grouping now in 2 years.

Excellent stuff, and a perfect example as to how credit cards can work in your favour.

On top of the extra protection you get from a credit card, there are all sorts of offers you can take advantage of if you do have a good rating. 0% purchase offers, balance transfers, cash back and up to 50 days interest free credit. Everybody should have a credit card if they can for emergencies and would be a hell of a lot cheaper than "pay day loans" that many people turn to when they have a burst pipe and the like.

 

[phil8715]

I dont need or want credit cards, I have had one or two in my time. Credit cards are great for emergencies as long as you pay them back in full.

My Mrs often gets mailings from places like Provident and Vanquis. I always like to walk into stores such as Brighthouse and laugh at the extortionate apr on goods. I would go without rather than visit places like that. Its legalised loan sharking. I understand why people would go there.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Tapatalk

 

[michael769]

I dont need or want credit cards, I have had one or two in my time. Credit cards are great for emergencies as long as you pay them back in full.

One day you will pay for something in advance only for the company to go bust and you will lose your money for nothing to show for it - unlike those who paid by credit card who will get it all back for the CC company.

If you are organised enough to always pay it off every month (in effect using it as a charge card) then a credit card is a very good thing. I would never dream of paying for anything of any significant value in any other way, if I can avoid it - so much do I value the extra consumer protection that credit card transactions enjoy. (and the 1% cashback I get on mine give a nice little late Xmas present every January!)

Obviously if you are not so organised it may not be worth it as the interest rates and charges soon add up if you don't keep on top of it - but I have a direct debit set up so the payment goes automatically.