Cases where a passenger must be present (e.g. Railcards)

[py_megapixel]

A child must travel. You can't just buy railcard discounted adult and child tickets to travel alone.

The above post refers to a Family & Friends Railcard discount. I have a few questions:

1. Are there any other cases like this, where a ticket if only valid in conjuction with the use of another ticket at the same time (as opposed to the purchase of another ticket)?
   
   
2. How is this enforced (and is it in practice)? Is there something preventing a passenger from just saying "my child has gone to the toilet" or "my child is sat in another carriage" for example?
   
   
3. Must both passengers always be the same? For example, would it be acceptable for a child to travel out with one parent, and back with another, on the same return ticket?

 

[Hadders]

The above post refers to a Family & Friends Railcard discount. I have a few questions:

1. Are there any other cases like this, where a ticket if only valid in conjuction with the use of another ticket at the same time (as opposed to the purchase of another ticket)?
   
   
2. How is this enforced (and is it in practice)? Is there something preventing a passenger from just saying "my child has gone to the toilet" or "my child is sat in another carriage" for example?
   
   
3. Must both passengers always be the same? For example, would it be acceptable for a child to travel out with one parent, and back with another, on the same return ticket?

1. Duo tickets, Two Together Railcard discounted tickets, Groupsave tickets. There might be discretion shown if you have got the ticket but there is no entitlement to be treated this way
2. It depends how alert the person checking tickets is
3. Officially tickets are not transferable, in practice it would be difficult to detect

 

[Haywain]

1. Duo tickets, Two Together Railcard discounted tickets, Groupsave tickets. There might be discretion shown if you have got the ticket but there is no entitlement to be treated this way
2. It depends how alert the person checking tickets is
3. Officially tickets are not transferable, in practice it would be difficult to detect

On point 3, the Conditions of Travel have now changed and do not specifically state that tickets are not transferable.

 

[yorkie]

• How is this enforced (and is it in practice)? Is there something preventing a passenger from just saying "my child has gone to the toilet" or "my child is sat in another carriage" for example?

On a morning peak service with no sign of any children on board, an astute Guard may return later to assess the situation, whereas a train full of families would be a rather different matter.

 

[alistairlees]

The above post refers to a Family & Friends Railcard discount. I have a few questions:

1. Are there any other cases like this, where a ticket if only valid in conjuction with the use of another ticket at the same time (as opposed to the purchase of another ticket)?
   
   
2. How is this enforced (and is it in practice)? Is there something preventing a passenger from just saying "my child has gone to the toilet" or "my child is sat in another carriage" for example?
   
   
3. Must both passengers always be the same? For example, would it be acceptable for a child to travel out with one parent, and back with another, on the same return ticket?

In addition to the examples provided by Hadders, there are also child flat fare tickets (“kids go for £1”, that sort of thing) which must be used with an accompanying adult (who has their own ticket).

Regarding point 2, if the child is in another coach then they are not travelling with the group and should pay the appropriate fare.

Anyone can use a ticket, unless there’s a railcard or other person-specific discount, or the medium is a smartcard (I think; at least on ScotRail this would apply, as their smart cards have a photo on). Season tickets are not transferable though.

 

[221129]

How is this enforced (and is it in practice)? Is there something preventing a passenger from just saying "my child has gone to the toilet" or "my child is sat in another carriage" for example

You can ask them to point out or get the person in the other carriage to come to them... if they claim they are in the loo then you can check later on or wait...

 

[[.n]]

Regarding point 2, if the child is in another coach then they are not travelling with the group and should pay the appropriate fare.

Off the top of my head here are some reasons, why that's not going to work;

If the train was crowded, and seat was only in another coach
some trains had power sockets only in specific coaches
child was in a wheelchair space

 

[Haywain]

Off the top of my head here are some reasons, why that's not going to work;

If the train was crowded, and seat was only in another coach
some trains had power sockets only in specific coaches
child was in a wheelchair space

Straws; clutching.

 

[TJ Barrent]

Straws; clutching.

Slightly less straw-clutching reasons (both actual personal experiences travelling on F&F railcard) would be seat reservations having been made in different coaches (busy York-Edinburgh pre-Christmas service, no one willing to swap and older child who regularly uses trains alone being happy to sit away from me and younger child) and same older child finding friends travelling on another coach on the same service and spending the journey with them, not us.

Didn’t even enter my mind on either occasion that anyone that would consider charging us/her extra claiming we weren’t a group. Train crew also didn’t bat an eyelid, but did offer an apology for the busyness and split seat reservations and checked we were happy/comfortable with the situation.

 

[island]

On point 3, the Conditions of Travel have now changed and do not specifically state that tickets are not transferable.

Part used tickets remain non-transferable, see NRCoT C 5.1.2 (and a return ticket is one ticket issued as two coupons). To do what py_megapixel proposed in the first post would require single tickets.

 

[[.n]]

Straws; clutching.

You have obviously never travelled on a SWT/SWR/XC train - these are all things that either I have experienced or seen or several occasions (pre C19 obviously) -

 

[mmh]

Straws; clutching.

Really? You can't picture, say, a family of four on a train not sat together as there weren't adjacent seats for all of them so one parent ends up with one kid apart from another parent with another kid?

It happens all the time and isn't unique to trains, as anyone who's ever been on a bus or plane knows.