Cascading Rolling Stock 2016-2020?

[LNW-GW Joint]

I would agree a small Bi-mode build followed by a more extensive EMU build on Electrification completion does seem to make the most sense for TPE.

Plus a straight electric build for Manchester-Scotland, maybe 20-ish units.
Expand both builds as the network develops.

 

[Dave1987]

For a country that is £1tn in debt seems people on here are spending vast amounts of money in their heads and scrapping trains that are not life expired. Why not wait until the DFT releases their latest crazy schemes and insanely expensive deals and then scrutinise them?

 

[northwichcat]

seems people on here are spending vast amounts of money in their heads and scrapping trains that are not life expired.

Which trains are you referring to?

HSTs and Pacers are life expired unless you propose multi-million pound refurbishments.

The recycled electrical traction on the 442s is life expired, so the question is what can you do with them in you want to keep them in service? (There's a lengthy thread where people have proposed ideas for them.)

There's also suggestions the 313s, 507s, 508s, 150s and 153s all don't have long left due to corrosion and body sagging issues.

 

[CosherB]

The thing about DMUs and EMUs is that DMUs have a significant disadvantage over diesel loco-hauled - rattly engines underneath. EMUs don't, as electric running gear is very quiet. So there are few reasons *not* to go EMU over electric LH, and many reasons in favour.

I'm sure you can come up with something better than "rattly engines" as a reason not to procure DMUs...... apart from a pathalogical hatred of them! :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

I'm sure you can come up with something better than "rattly engines" as a reason not to procure DMUs...... apart from a pathalogical hatred of them! :roll:

I went on one of these Renfe DMUs when they were practically new: http://www.renfe.com/viajeros/nuestros_trenes/md_598.html

One other Britain travelling on the same train commented on the train being very quiet and concluded it was an electric train.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I went on one of these Renfe DMUs when they were practically new: http://www.renfe.com/viajeros/nuestros_trenes/md_598.html

One other Britain travelling on the same train commented on the train being very quiet and concluded it was an electric train.

Very nice trains.
They have one (large) set of double doors per coach, near the middle.

 

[plastictaffy]

Rumour doing the round at my place is that LM are intending to use the Hogwarts express on some peak time express services into London, with future de-electrification on the slow lines if successful, with a new fleet of Tornado-type locomotives being built........

Seriously though, how many of the 319's are Northern having? Anyone know of any plans pending for the class 350/2's?

 

[DasLunatic]

Here's an idea for the Wessies and Mk4s - remove the bogies, plant them on a field somewhere and have the Government sell them on as houses.

 

[WatcherZero]

Rumour doing the round at my place is that LM are intending to use the Hogwarts express on some peak time express services into London, with future de-electrification on the slow lines if successful, with a new fleet of Tornado-type locomotives being built........

Seriously though, how many of the 319's are Northern having? Anyone know of any plans pending for the class 350/2's?

No plans for 350/2's, Northern have agreement for 20 319's for Manchester-Liverpool and Liverpool-Wigan but they will need more for the later electrified lines.

 

[D365]

We can presume the 350/2s to continue with LM... Could that be a typo for Class 350/4?

 

[northwichcat]

Abellio look to have been looking in to new DMUs or self-powered stock and new EMUs: http://www.publictenders.net/node/2913662 for the possible award of new Northern and Anglia franchises.

There's another one relating to finance: http://www.publictenders.net/node/2913662 which could be why Abellio are doing a joint bid with Stagecoach for Anglia - they don't have the finances to go it alone.

 

[Stats]

Abellio look to have been looking in to new DMUs or self-powered stock and new EMUs: http://www.publictenders.net/node/2913662 for the possible award of new Northern and Anglia franchises.

There's another one relating to finance: http://www.publictenders.net/node/2913662 which could be why Abellio are doing a joint bid with Stagecoach for Anglia - they don't have the finances to go it alone.

There is always a finance tender to accompany a new rolling stock order, so you shouldn't read anything in this. For example Govia Northern had a finance tender for the 120 units required for the Northern bid.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes, the process is usually negotiate a quantity and price with a rolling stock manufacturer then seek offers from ROSCO's to finance and lease back the fleet, the TOC essentially acting as a middleman in the deal despite also being the end user.

All the bidders for the franchises also have to provide quotation prices for rolling stock alongside their bid.

 

[plastictaffy]

We can presume the 350/2s to continue with LM... Could that be a typo for Class 350/4?

No, I put /2.....
The rumour mill is currently working overtime at my place, with some saying that they are on their way elsewhere, so that all the 110mph units - /1's, 3's and 4's are with the same leasing company. Whisper is that excess mileage payments are costing a fortune.
What is known for certain is that some 319's are coming. Some say like for like with 321's - 7 for 7, others are saying 9 for 7. Yet others have suggested as much as half the fleet could be coming, with the 350/2's going elsewhere. The last one is a bit far fetched it would leave the likes of GTR extremely short of stock. Although it is, technically the same company, so could some sort of deal be struck to use 319's turn and turn about with mark 1 Desiro's, perhaps?

 

[northwichcat]

No, I put /2.....
The rumour mill is currently working overtime at my place, with some saying that they are on their way elsewhere, so that all the 110mph units - /1's, 3's and 4's are with the same leasing company. Whisper is that excess mileage payments are costing a fortune.
What is known for certain is that some 319's are coming. Some say like for like with 321's - 7 for 7, others are saying 9 for 7. Yet others have suggested as much as half the fleet could be coming, with the 350/2's going elsewhere. The last one is a bit far fetched it would leave the likes of GTR extremely short of stock. Although it is, technically the same company, so could some sort of deal be struck to use 319's turn and turn about with mark 1 Desiro's, perhaps?

Having the 350/1s, 350/3s and 350/4s all with the same leasing company isn't the same as having them all with the same operator.

350/2s may be able to replace the 323s on 'South Manchester' routes without any real issues. However, the interior won't meet the 'Regional Express' requirement for Manchester Airport to Blackpool/Windermere services without a refurbishment which includes fitting 2+2 seating with tables and plug points.

Govia are bidding for the Northern franchise and their Northern bid isn't allowed to take on units which aren't surplus to requirements elsewhere. However, I imagine they could suggest ideas for freeing up trains currently used by other Govia franchises.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

No, I put /2.....
The rumour mill is currently working overtime at my place, with some saying that they are on their way elsewhere, so that all the 110mph units - /1's, 3's and 4's are with the same leasing company. Whisper is that excess mileage payments are costing a fortune.
What is known for certain is that some 319's are coming. Some say like for like with 321's - 7 for 7, others are saying 9 for 7. Yet others have suggested as much as half the fleet could be coming, with the 350/2's going elsewhere. The last one is a bit far fetched it would leave the likes of GTR extremely short of stock. Although it is, technically the same company, so could some sort of deal be struck to use 319's turn and turn about with mark 1 Desiro's, perhaps?

I know they probably won't If all the LM and TPE 350s went to SWT, SWT, placed any follow-up order for 707s, would that allow SWTs to retire all their 455s, 456s and maybe all their 458s?

 

[northwichcat]

I know they probably won't If all the LM and TPE 350s went to SWT, SWT, placed any follow-up order for 707s, would that allow SWTs to retire all their 455s, 456s and maybe all their 458s?

I think it would be a bit pointless doing that given it would release non-life expired DC only units, which are less versatile than AC Desiros which could have DC equipment added.

 

[ed1971]

The thing about DMUs and EMUs is that DMUs have a significant disadvantage over diesel loco-hauled - rattly engines underneath. EMUs don't, as electric running gear is very quiet. So there are few reasons *not* to go EMU over electric LH, and many reasons in favour.

You clearly have never sat in the motor coach of a Class 319! I travelled into Liverpool on one at the weekend. A young girl with her parents was sat opposite and put her hands over her ears everytime the train moved off! Whilst they seemed more noisy than engines on Pacers, I consider them an improvement over the 150s with their 1960s technology Cummins NTA855R engines.

I have been on Class 170s and found them very quiet internally. I have never been on an Electrostar, but Youtube videos of them would suggest that they are noisier than a Turbostar.

 

[WatcherZero]

Indeed, main difference I noticed was on the Pacers the engine noise was mainly coming in through open windows, while on the 319's it was coming up through the floor.

 

[plastictaffy]

You clearly have never sat in the motor coach of a Class 319! I travelled into Liverpool on one at the weekend. A young girl with her parents was sat opposite and put her hands over her ears everytime the train moved off! Whilst they seemed more noisy than engines on Pacers, I consider them an improvement over the 150s with their 1960s technology Cummins NTA855R engines.

I have been on Class 170s and found them very quiet internally. I have never been on an Electrostar, but Youtube videos of them would suggest that they are noisier than a Turbostar.

I always like sitting in the motor coaches of old style EMU's when I can - I quite like the noise.......

 

[NSEFAN]

Rumour doing the round at my place is that LM are intending to use the Hogwarts express on some peak time express services into London, with future de-electrification on the slow lines if successful, with a new fleet of Tornado-type locomotives being built........

You joke, but I believe at one point Railtrack were against electrification as it is was one more thing to maintain, go wrong, and create delay minutes for them to pay for!