Cascades query

[Boothby97]

I was thinking about the cascades of units yesterday, and how unit layout across Britain will turn out.
Anyway, the main question is about the upcoming electrification projects. How many Northern Rail diagrams will be able to become EMUs within the next few years and how DMUs will as a result be displaced, and what about other TOCs

Thanks, Sam

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

How many Northern Rail diagrams will be able to become EMUs within the next few years

Some but not many

and how DMUs [sic] will as a result be displaced,

Some but not many

and what about other TOCs

Some services by other TOCs will change to EMUs.

 

[northwichcat]

They'll be very few DMUs available to cascade to other TOCs as a result of the North West electrification as Northern Hub plans include enhanced services on routes not set to be electrified.

Also, what few DMUs are freed up will likely be used to cover DDA complaint refurbishments that are set to place in the 2014-2019 control period.

Remember they'll only be around 15 (maximum) extra EMUs available for Northern in the next 2-3 years due to delays to the Thameslink program.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If you take all the extra electrification currently planned, plus i am going to add in Sheffield to Moorthorpe/Doncaster as this is basically rumored in Modern Railways to be announced within next 6 months as an extension. So this will cover how many DMU diagrams will become electric over the next 9 years. And in-case of any franchise remapping i am to include TPE services too.

From the NW scheme. All Northern Services between Manchester victoria and Liverpool Lime Street, this will include those extended beyond Man Vic to Stalybridge. All Liverpool to Preston services, inc those that go on to Blackpool north. Manchester (either station) to Preston & Blackpool North/Lancaster. Any services beyond to Barrow will have to be DMU operated. All TPE services to Scotland to become electric.

Transpennine, will allow only the current Newcastle service to become electric however, and this is a big however. There is a complete recast coming and the initial plans indicate 6 TPE services an hour. 2 Newcastle to Liverpool EMU ,2 York to MIA EMU, 1 Selby to Piccadilly and one Hull to Piccadilly DMU.

Then in addition, this will allow Leeds Huddersfield stoppers to become electric as well as Huddersfield Manchester stoppers (withdrawn then re-introduced to Piccadilly).



MML (sheffield) two possible services, Sheffield-Leeds via Moorthorpe and Sheffield-Adwick.

But and again a big but. I would not expect things to stay as they are, there are going to be some fairly huge changes to services across the north of England over the next decade. And out of the other side will come a rail system that frankly we will be proud of.
The illustrative options already include doubling of frequencies to half hourly with 4 car EMUs on most lines electrified out of Leeds.

 

[hwl]

Non Northern DMUs becoming spare:

Pacers:
ex FGW (due to cascade of 165s from the existing routes that are to be electrified)
and SW Valleys (upon electrification)
But don't expect any released till 2019 as they will cover for other units being refurbished / made compliant.

If T&H (aka goblin gets electrified) then 8x 2car 172s.

Very little info or even realistic discussions on what will happen on MML yet as Thor /eVoyager seems to be dead and very few local services EMT services would be fully electric.

EMUs
Plenty of 315/317/319s available from 2017/8 with smaller numbers available before. (Ex Thameslink or GA pre Crossrail services).

As soon as some of the franchises or mostly their successors decide whether they want new or existing rolling stock (i.e. FGW or successors looking at 319s or new stock) then things might become clearer, at the moment there are too many ifs.

 

[IanXC]

Transpennine, will allow only the current Newcastle service to become electric however, and this is a big however. There is a complete recast coming and the initial plans indicate 6 TPE services an hour. 2 Newcastle to Liverpool EMU, 2 York to MIA EMU, 1 Selby to Piccadilly EMU and one Hull to Piccadilly DMU.

(My insert in bold).

It looks like Selby will come relatively soon, before the core TP North electrification in any case. Its been put first so as to maximise use for diversions from the ECML. What that means for local services is unclear, but a cross Leeds service could help diagramming in the short term before many more units arrive. Selby to Bradford anyone?