Carstairs Engineering Works

[lewisdicks]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but does anyone know how long it’s meant to last and how long it would take for direct Glasgow to Euston services to resume (I.e. not diverted via Kilmarnock)

 

[Lucy1501]

National rail says the engineering works are Saturday 4 to Sunday 19 March. I very much doubt they'll change those dates considering how much planning will have gone into it.

Details can be found on the national rail website here. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/313334.aspx.

 

[Freightmaster]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but does anyone know how long it’s meant to last...

There are full 48 hour blocks of all lines on weekends from March 4th right through to the end of May.

On weekdays, the WCML is blocked to all traffic for six weeks from March 6th, although the south curve
reopens on Monday March 20th.

and how long it would take for direct Glasgow to Euston services to resume (I.e. not diverted via Kilmarnock)

weekdays until March 17th: limited Glasgow to Carlisle shuttles via Kilmarnock.

weekdays from March 20th to April 14th: Glasgow to Euston services resume (via Midcalder Junction)

weekdays from April 17th: normal Glasgow to Euston timetable (via Law Junction)


weekends: no Euston services until June!




MARK

 

[lewisdicks]

weekdays from March 20th to April 14th: Glasgow to Euston services resume (via Midcalder Junction)

How would that work would services turn around there?

 

[03_179]

The go to the junction then reverse back towards Glasgow.
I'm up that way on the 22nd March and I've decided to via King's Cross to Edinburgh and across instead

 

[driver9000]

How would that work would services turn around there?

There's a main aspect signal on the Down line at Midcalder Junction facing back towards Glasgow/Carstairs for trains to drop behind and change direction.

 

[JamieL]

The timings for this are ridiculous - how can they justify decimating the WCML for months?

 

[The Planner]

The timings for this are ridiculous - how can they justify decimating the WCML for months?

How long should a complete remodelling take?

 

[Freightmaster]

How long should a complete remodelling take?

Anneka Rice would have had it all done and dusted in a couple of days!




MARK

 

[Peter0124]

Trains will have to leave Glasgow the wrong way round, so that when they reverse at Midcalder, they'll be back in correct formation.

 

[Flying Snail]

Trains will have to leave Glasgow the wrong way round, so that when they reverse at Midcalder, they'll be back in correct formation.

Trains will leave Glasgow in exactly the same formation as they arrived into Glasgow as there is no way of turning a train there.

If they arrive from London they will return as is, if they have been sitting in Polmadie the correct way they willl be reversed at Midcalder and will be reverse formation south of Carstairs.

 

[greyman42]

The timings for this are ridiculous - how can they justify decimating the WCML for months?

What option is there?

 

[Bald Rick]

The timings for this are ridiculous - how can they justify decimating the WCML for months?

How would you do it?

 

[JamieL]

What option is there?

Sustain with the current scheme? Are the improvements from the work really going to make much of a difference? As it is the WCML is a mess so what does improving the Carstairs Junction actually offer?

It should simply not be on the table to effectively disript the WCML for such extended periods. It is the most important rail artery in the country and should be kept open in all but the most dire circumstances.

 

[The Planner]

Sustain with the current scheme? Are the improvements from the work really going to make much of a difference? As it is the WCML is a mess so what does improving the Carstairs Junction actually offer?

It should simply not be on the table to effectively disript the WCML for such extended periods. It is the most important rail artery in the country and should be kept open in all but the most dire circumstances.

Yes, it makes a big difference, line speed increases, performance and reliability increases. To say you cannot disrupt a major artery to do major works is utter nonsense. Explain why the WCML is a mess apart from TOC issues? The fact its one of the most intensively used lines means it gets knackered!

 

[Bald Rick]

Sustain with the current scheme?

At some point, ie now, the ‘current scheme’ is worn out and needs replacing - track, signalling, overhead line.

Do you:

a) cause lots of disruption replacing replacing exactly what went before, or,
b) cause lots of disruption by putting back something markedly better.

You decide!

For a) the disruption my be able to be spread piecemeal over a couple of years - overall more disruption but in smaller chunks. That’s less easy for b), but perhaps it’s better to get it over and done with, and get the benefits sooner?

 

[Falcon1200]

As it is the WCML is a mess so what does improving the Carstairs Junction actually offer?

So because the WCML 'is a mess' no improvements should be made? The exact opposite applies, surely!

 

[JamieL]

I just wondering what the Carstairs improvements will actually add other than months of misery. A marginally faster journey over a few (?) miles on an already late Avanti 390 that has been throttled in speed due to inadequate infrastructure and had countless delays already.

 

[The exile]

It should simply not be on the table to effectively disript the WCML for such extended periods. It is the most important rail artery in the country and should be kept open in all but the most dire circumstances.

With no disrespect to Scotland, the bit of the WCML that is the “most important rail artery in the country” is not the bit north of Carlisle. Think passenger figures might suggest otherwise even for the three Scottish cross-border routes. Clearly GSWR is in third place….

 

[JamieL]

With no disrespect to Scotland, the bit of the WCML that is the “most important rail artery in the country” is not the bit north of Carlisle. Think passenger figures might suggest otherwise even for the three Scottish cross-border routes. Clearly GSWR is in third place….

I am sure in passenger you are correct, but it really just shows the contempt the north is treated with IMHO. It is a major railway artery out of Scotland's biggest city and there is this lazy fare attitude of its fine to close or disrupt it for months. Totally unacceptable.

 

[Flying Snail]

I just wondering what the Carstairs improvements will actually add other than months of misery. A marginally faster journey over a few (?) miles on an already late Avanti 390 that has been throttled in speed due to inadequate infrastructure and had countless delays already.

First it was disruption for improvement works, now it is inadequate infrastructure. You don't seem to grasp that improvement works are the only way to deal with inadequate infrastructure.

Pick one whinge and stick with it. you will still be wrong but at least you won't be hypocritical as well.

 

[The Planner]

I am sure in passenger you are correct, but it really just shows the contempt the north is treated with IMHO. It is a major railway artery out of Scotland's biggest city and there is this lazy fare attitude of its fine to close or disrupt it for months. Totally unacceptable.

Not answering the questions posed though.

 

[The exile]

I am sure in passenger you are correct, but it really just shows the contempt the north is treated with IMHO. It is a major railway artery out of Scotland's biggest city and there is this lazy fare attitude of its fine to close or disrupt it for months. Totally unacceptable.

Clearly it is going to be disruptive, but it is not as if there is no rail alternative. Real contempt would be shown by doing nothing on the principle that ‘it was good enough for 1974….”

 

[Peter0124]

Even though the blockage adds an hour onto service, I am happy the diversion via Midcalder exists. If it didn't then we'd be stuck with the GSW and diesels for 2 months.

I am still wondering though whether sets that start at Glasgow in the morning on the first day or two of the diversions, will purposely leave back to front. This is to prevent it being wrong formation at Euston and thus reverse formationing the next working of the train which could be a service to Manchester for example.

They can turn Polmadie sets round the Hamilton Circle if they need to be turned.

It won't matter so much for services that come in from the south, as they'll be reverse at Glasgow but back in normal formation after Carstairs. And the ones that come from the south to stable at Polmadie as the multiple reverses will cancel out. It's the ones that start at Polmadie on the first day of diversions, that could end up reverse formation at Euston.

 

[Freightmaster]

It won't matter so much for services that come in from the south, as they'll be reverse at Glasgow but back in normal formation after Carstairs. It's the ones that start at Polmadie (on the first day of diversions) that could end up reverse formation at Euston.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but surely all the diagrams starting from Polmadie in a morning
will have worked up from Euston (reversing at Midcalder) the previous evening, so nothing can
possibly be 'the wrong way round' after the first day or two?



MARK

 

[Bald Rick]

due to inadequate infrastructure and had countless delays already.

Yes the infrastructure at Carstsirs is inadequate and unreliable. Someone should spend some serious money upgrading it, no?

 

[Peter0124]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but surely all the diagrams starting from Polmadie in a morning
will have worked up from Euston (reversing at Midcalder) the previous evening, so nothing can
possibly be 'the wrong way round' after the first day or two?



MARK

No you're right, it'll only be for the first day or two if the sets haven't been turned beforehand.

 

[pdeaves]

this lazy fare attitude

that's 'laissez-faire'

 

[JamieL]

that's 'laissez-faire'

Well, at least I got one good reply Fat fingers, mobile, age, rushed posting and autocorrect conspired against me.

Seriously though, for all the replies, the end result is the same, massive disruption and advice to effectively not use the railway. Fail.

 

[zwk500]

Seriously though, for all the replies, the end result is the same, massive disruption and advice to effectively not use the railway. Fail.

So we should stick with the terrible infrastructure that keeps failing then? Or we should somehow replace tracks without closing them to traffic?