carriage without lights

[jon0844]

You can now get LEDs fitted inside fluorescent tubes for retrofitting, which should make switching even easier. So far it's mainly LEDs replacing halogen MR16/GU20 bulbs - some of which are good (you can now get very decent, very bright and long lasting ones) and awful (the dull ones with lots of tiny LEDs that fail and fade, which seems to be what was fitted by National Express to the (now) EC HSTs).

They do cost a fair bit more, but consume a lot less energy - especially when replacing halogen drop lights used on trains. I am not sure that if every train had LED lighting throughout (bar the main headlamps), it would make a massive cut in energy consumption (given the percentage of the power needed to drive the trains), but it probably would be noticeable.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

In the past I remember London Underground carriages going dark when going over 3rd rail gaps. (Incidentally, why does this not happen when going through OHLE neutral sections?)

On heritage railways they often go through tunnels with no lights (I think often deliberately).

 

[sprinterguy]

In the past I remember London Underground carriages going dark when going over 3rd rail gaps.

Older LU stock still does! Although there’s some emergency lighting that stays illuminated for the brief second or two that the main lights are out.

On heritage railways they often go through tunnels with no lights (I think often deliberately).

On the Severn Valley Railway, the guards seem to be adept at remembering to switch the lights on just before the train enters a tunnel, and then switching them off again promptly after it has exited.

 

[ainsworth74]

In the past I remember London Underground carriages going dark when going over 3rd rail gaps.

It still happens so there's nothing about it being in the past...

Also that isn't really like what's being talked about here as the lights only go out for a few seconds on the LU and there are still emergency lights.

Edit: Damn it sprinterguy that's twice in two threads in the space of a couple of minutes that you've beaten me to the punch!

 

[sprinterguy]

Edit: Damn it sprinterguy that's twice in two threads in the space of a couple of minutes that you've beaten me to the punch!

Apologies, we seem to be following each other around the place at the moment I'd better take a break and let you get a word in first!

 

[DXMachina]

I imagine LED refitting on diesel trains is a lot more beneficial than on electrics, as the cost per kilowatt/hour on a diesel train is linked to the cost of diesel fuel and cutting the electrical load cuts the fuel bill by letting the engine run slower for a given rail speed.

On electric trains I guess there's no incentive as the energy cost wouldn't be directly geared to the power consumption ?

 

[317666]

I was on a 158 along the Cambrian, and the guard was telling everybody to sit in just one coach, because the lights were out in the other coach. Even though it was broad daylight in April, surely it doesn't matter all that much in daylight as you can still see?

 

[Eagle]

There aren't even any tunnels between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth.

 

[trentside]

FGW have started fitting LED lights to the 150/1 fleet after a trial with 150125 last year. Be interesting to see if any other fleets get fitted, as FGW/Angel must see the work as beneficial.

EMT have fitted LED lighting to their 156 fleet during its recent refurb.

I believe that the 153 fleet retains conventional lighting - though I need to check on this.

 

[Jonfun]

On the Severn Valley Railway, the guards seem to be adept at remembering to switch the lights on just before the train enters a tunnel, and then switching them off again promptly after it has exited.

I'd hope their route knowledge would indeed at the very least allow them to remember where the tunnels are It's quite important on Mark 1 (and similar) coaches to only turn lights on and off when necessary, especially on heritage lines with a top speed of 25ish as the lights are worked off the coach batteries, which gets charged using a belt and dynamo below the vehicle. At 25 the speed isn't really sufficient to give them a good charge - so if you leave them on you'll quite often find the electricity isn't there when it's needed (ie going through the tunnels!), and obviously then you have to start taking coach out of service/moving passengers/providing staff to guide passengers through with torches etc.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I believe that the 153 fleet retains conventional lighting - though I need to check on this.

I was just thinking of these with the thread title in mind. Has any recent occurrences been reported on this class.

 

[tsr]

I've experienced some very flickery lights on 377s struggling to draw power during snowy/icy weather. This was before the onboard software was modified to enable more effective use of the traction current.

 

[TEW]

You can now get LEDs fitted inside fluorescent tubes for retrofitting, which should make switching even easier. So far it's mainly LEDs replacing halogen MR16/GU20 bulbs - some of which are good (you can now get very decent, very bright and long lasting ones) and awful (the dull ones with lots of tiny LEDs that fail and fade, which seems to be what was fitted by National Express to the (now) EC HSTs).

The ones fitted to the 150/1 retain the old casing of the fluorescent tubes, but the tubes themselves gone, just with strips of small LEDs replacing them. Using the old casing means that there are quite a lot of shadows cast and the interiors feel slightly darker in my opinion, especially at night time. The light is a lot whiter than the old fluorescent tubes which does give quite a different feel.

 

[Gareth]

Thameslink tunnels into St Pancras are good fun in the dark.

What's the ac/dc switchover like? Looking on youtube, it gives me the impression that the internal lights stay on (at least on a 377). The only thing that seems to go off is the electronic message board saying what the next station is.

EDIT: Looked again and the lights definately don't go off. Are the lights running off a battery?

EDIT AGAIN: Another video shows that some stay on and some go off. All the ones in the vestibule stay on and about half in the carriages seem to go off.

 

[RPM]

Saloon lighitng is one of those things like heating/air con temperature and P.A. volume which passengers always think is down to driver incompetence. In the case of lighting we do actually have control of it (however we are not considered responsible enough to control saloon temp or P.A. volume!), but we don't know if it has failed in a particular vehicle, so in DOO areas, unless someonme comes and complains that the lighting is off, we are blissfully unaware.

 

[bronzeonion]

What's the ac/dc switchover like? Looking on youtube, it gives me the impression that the internal lights stay on (at least on a 377). The only thing that seems to go off is the electronic message board saying what the next station is.

EDIT: Looked again and the lights definately don't go off. Are the lights running off a battery?

EDIT AGAIN: Another video shows that some stay on and some go off. All the ones in the vestibule stay on and about half in the carriages seem to go off.

With Class 378's you wouldn't even know it was happening! When they go from Willesden Junction - Shepherds Bush, they change over from 25kv AC overheads to 750v DC third rail at 25mph. The only giveaway is the air conditioning turning off and the clunking sound if you sit under the pantograph.

 

[Whistler40145]

I once did the seats on Sleeper from Preston to London Euston, the batteries must have been flat in my coach, at every neutral section the lights would go out & back on.

Has anyone else encountered this?

 

[jon0844]

The ones fitted to the 150/1 retain the old casing of the fluorescent tubes, but the tubes themselves gone, just with strips of small LEDs replacing them. Using the old casing means that there are quite a lot of shadows cast and the interiors feel slightly darker in my opinion, especially at night time. The light is a lot whiter than the old fluorescent tubes which does give quite a different feel.

Doesn't sound like the best install then, as I'm sure the actual retrofit tubes with LEDs cast light naturally in all directions, just like the light being replaced.

People generally prefer a warmer colour temperature. Cool white does tend to make the inside of a train look rather clinical (again, another issue I had with the HST refurb on the ECML).

I also think that's why some people on FGW HSTs regard them as too bright, as they're (or were) using cool white tubes over warm white tubes. If First changed to a warmer light, it might seem more 'homely'.

LED technology has already got to the point where people and businesses can replace most of their existing lights with decent, long-lasting, lights that aren't the horrid cold/blue lights of first generation examples. But I am surprised when I still see them being used in new installations. Bet they're not even that much cheaper!

 

[Gareth]

With Class 378's you wouldn't even know it was happening! When they go from Willesden Junction - Shepherds Bush, they change over from 25kv AC overheads to 750v DC third rail at 25mph. The only giveaway is the air conditioning turning off and the clunking sound if you sit under the pantograph.

So how come the lights stay on then? That surely suggests the power feeding the lights is somehow uninterrupted. Certainly with flourescent lights, I would imagine that even the most brief of a stop in current would cause them to go off for a second or two. I assume diesel trains must have a battery for these sorts of things but I would have thought this would be deemed superfluous for electric trains. Unless it's deemed as a safety issue incase of a power cut.

 

[headshot119]

So how come the lights stay on then? That surely suggests the power feeding the lights is somehow uninterrupted. Certainly with flourescent lights, I would imagine that even the most brief of a stop in current would cause them to go off for a second or two. I assume diesel trains must have a battery for these sorts of things but I would have thought this would be deemed superfluous for electric trains. Unless it's deemed as a safety issue incase of a power cut.

Most EMU's certainly have a set of batteries. It allows the lights, PA and other safety systems to work in the event of a power failure.

 

[OuterDistant]

Once did Weymouth - Weymouth Quay and back in the dark. Still don't know if it was just our coach, or the whole train!

 

[Eagle]

Once did Weymouth - Weymouth Quay and back in the dark. Still don't know if it was just our coach, or the whole train!

At least there'd have been streetlights...

 

[Gareth]

Most EMU's certainly have a set of batteries. It allows the lights, PA and other safety systems to work in the event of a power failure.

Thanks for that. It's certainly interesting that looking at the Thameslink change over on a class 377, some lights seem to be run by battery and some rely on the external supply.

 

[aylesbury]

Once came back from Edinborough to Birmingham with no lights or heat on a charter returning to Princes Risborough.Stood at Brum for a long time before BR could provide a loco that could heat us then we headed off ,still no lights but warm!Arrived back at Risboro at 4am with a lot of explaining to the wife why I was so late!

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Back in the Mk1 days in Cornwall, the lights would come on for the tunnels during the day - if the guard remembered!!
If allowed, I would sit in a coach without lights every time! Seeing out the window at night is great.
They turn the interior lights off on planes when coming in to land, great night time view of the centres of population etc.

 

[jon0844]

I do wonder if dimming the lights at night could actually be a good safety feature (as demonstrated by the airlines doing it) but guess the railway isn't considered to be at the same level of risk - especially given no take off or landing!

There's certainly something to be said for more innovative use of lighting, especially when trains have diffused lighting on the ceiling, halogen/LED lights aimed in targeted directions (usually straight down) and so on.

Perhaps at night, using light sensors, the lights could dim in the aisles (perhaps with lighting lower down to light the aisle, which also becomes useful in an emergency?) but staying brighter near the doors/vestibules - or make it easier for passengers to contol their own seat light (on some trains, I do find it odd that it's not even obvious which light is aimed at you until you try).

Clearly I'm talking more about Inter-city trains than a normal suburban commuter type train, although you could still dim the lighting in certain areas without much effort (at the design stage).

I realise that this is all about cost, but the actual cost is probably negligible now compared to what it would have been many years ago. Look at a new airline, which most likely has lighting that can be faded in/out - or even change colour.

 

[142056]

I was once on a Crosscountry service from Bristol to Manchester. One of the 5 coaches' lights weren't working due to a problem with the doors or something. It was going dark after leaving Bristol so I had a wander, saw a brilliant sunset. However, after Birmingham the guard changed and then locked out the carriage, so we couldn't pass through it - surely that would have been a bit of a safety hazard if we'd have needed to move into there in an emergency?

 

[DiscoStu]

One of my most memorable journeys was in pitch black darkness.

I dropped onto a Euston - Glasgow relief at Euston, formed of an 81/85 and a rake of Network South East MK1's. There was practically nobody on it, so I sat in the front coach, alone. When the guard checked tickets, I asked if he could turn the lights off, and he obliged

It was non stop Preston, and I took it all the way to Glasgow - that was the best WCML run I've ever had.

 

[paul1609]

In my youth Portsmouth FC used to run football specials to all away games. I think they used to routinely use the worst MK1 set from the Portsmouth-Cardiff services and the lights invariable only worked when powered by the dynamo at speed. Worse still these trains were only used to pottering around at 70 or so but trips to the North invariably used a class 33 (sometimes double headed) to Birmingham and then a lass 86 to Carlisle, Preston etc this invariably resulted in some very high speed runs probably a lot faster than the stock was fit for I'd guess. Trips to London were very often 2 x 4 ceps with a class 33/1 on the back to get through the then unelectrified gap to Eastleigh they used to go like **** off a shovel too.