Carriage/Coach?

[albertd]

A translator friend of mine has asked me if I know the difference in railway terms between "Carriage" and "Coach". Is there a subtle difference between the use of the two words, or are they interchangeable?

Also, he asked me for my opinion on a term for the door between carriages and parts of carriages. I suggested "connecting door". Is this right and, if not, what should it be please?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Normally there is no difference between Coach and Carriage, it depends who you talk to. Like as an example London Midland state on their CIS displays at Nuneaton that a train is formed of 2 Carriages whereas East Midlands Trains for the same train at Leicester will be shown on the CIS displays as having 2 Coaches.

The connection between the two coaches on a train is called a Gangway.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[starrymarkb]

They are pretty interchangeable. Car is also valid in US English (and I'm sure all but the most pedantic pedant in UK English would not get what you mean) - most European names for coach translate as "car" or "vehicle"

As for the door I don't think there is a word as such. Divider is used to refer to the entire dividing structure but the door isn't named AFAIK

 

[rebmcr]

They are pretty interchangeable. Car is also valid in US English (and I'm sure all but the most pedantic pedant in UK English would not get what you mean)

London Underground call them cars, which prompted uninformed mockery from a pair of unpleasant girls last time I was down there!

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd say car is quite usual (at least in the south) when talking about EMU lengths, platform lengths etc. Depends what the intended audience is I suppose.

 

[LateThanNever]

London Underground call them cars, which prompted uninformed mockery from a pair of unpleasant girls last time I was down there!

Think you'll find that it was a yank working on/with the Underground who used the US term 'car' which is why the term is used on the Underground but not elsewhere.
But have lost the reference...

 

[Bushy]

Think you'll find that it was a yank working on/with the Underground who used the US term 'car' which is why the term is used on the Underground but not elsewhere.
But have lost the reference...

Charles Tyson Yerkes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Yerkes

In August 1900, Yerkes decided to become involved in the development of the London Underground railway system after riding along the route of one proposed line and surveying the City of London from the summit of Hampstead Heath. He established the Underground Electric Railways Company of London to take control of the District Railway and the partly built Baker Street and Waterloo Railway; Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway; and Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway. Yerkes employed complex financial arrangements similar to those that he had used in America to raise the funds necessary to construct the new lines and electrify the District railway. In one of his last great triumphs, Yerkes managed to thwart an attempt by J. P. Morgan to enter the London Underground field.

Regards

Bushy

 

[Ash Bridge]

BR refered to the HST Mk3 passenger vehicles as Trailer Cars, and Mk3 hauled stock as coaches, and were not DMU/EMU vehicles refered to as cars?

 

[Railsigns]

Previous thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=97661

 

[snowball]

I thought I remembered this but nobody else has mentioned it, in either thread: soon after the present government came in in 2010, its first transport minister (Philip Hammond?) announced that "carriage" would be the standard term. And since then, railway industry documents seem to have used "carriage" more than previously, largely replacing "coach".

Though in the days of compartment stock, some of the general public used "carriage" to mean "compartment".

 

[DownSouth]

In all contexts except for the noise made by crows, the word car is simply shorthand for carriage.

When used for a motor vehicle, you get to it by way of horseless/motor carriage --> carriage --> car.

In the context of rail vehicles, the term carbody is useful if there are times you wish to talk about the design of just the external body while ignoring the subframes and internal design.

In Australia (where our inappropriately UK-derived rail system dictates we mostly use UK-derived railway jargon, not US-derived railroad jargon) it's generally accepted that carriage can be any rail vehicle other than a loco (including multiple units, loco-hauled coaches and freight cars), coach is only used for loco-hauled coaches, and car can be used for any carriages which are not coaches.

 

[albertd]

Hmm. I am not sure I am really any the wiser.

However, many thanks for your thoughts folks.

 

[Smudger105e]

The end doors are usually known as vestibule doors (at least where I come from!!)

 

[306024]

I'd say car is quite usual (at least in the south) when talking about EMU lengths, platform lengths etc. Depends what the intended audience is I suppose.

"Cars to the car sheds", a familiar cry in Liverpool St Control.
Translation: Empty stock to Ilford Depot.

 

[WatcherZero]

Woudnt say it was used as much up here though. Mostly carriages for multiple units and coachs for locomotive hauled stock.

If you want to be pedantic Coach means an enclosed space for carrying passengers whereas carriage doesnt neccesarily require the space to be enclosed but doesnt exclude it (so for example an open topped vehicle).

 

[thelem]

The signs on the platforms telling drivers where to stop round here say e.g. "8 Car Stop"

 

[WatcherZero]

Mainly for brevity. I.e. as an abbreviation of carriage rather than the intentional use of the term car.

 

[LateThanNever]

Charles Tyson Yerkes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Yerkes



Regards

Bushy

Ah, thank you - a name that, once encountered, shouldn't be easy to forget!

 

[jopsuk]

Hmm. I am not sure I am really any the wiser.

However, many thanks for your thoughts folks.

Simple answer: there's no simple answer but they're pretty interchangeable and everyone will know what you mean regardless of which term you use. English is a superb language.

 

[Emyr]

The end doors are usually known as vestibule doors (at least where I come from!!)

Vestibules are the spaces near the doors; Vestibule doors would normally be the ones between the Vestibule and the main passenger compartment.

 

[matchmaker]

Vestibules are the spaces near the doors; Vestibule doors would normally be the ones between the Vestibule and the main passenger compartment.

Unless on the LMS where a vestibule coach was an open one...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"Cars to the car sheds", a familiar cry in Liverpool St Control.
Translation: Empty stock to Ilford Depot.

Glasgow Subway. Broomloan Road Depot aka The Car Sheds