Carriage cab view

[Lawman]

folks,
This may sound a daft question..............I'm quite a nosey person.Whilst on long journeys l quite often get whiplash looking out of the train windows either side of the carrige

my question is....could it be possible to fit some sort of camera to the front of the train and beam the pictures to say some part of the carrige to allow a cab view of the journey.........l for one wouldn't mind paying extra for this.

anyone agree

 

[ralphchadkirk]

There would be such a small market for it that it wouldn't be cost effective, let alone the other issues with doing it.

 

[DarloRich]

However, many trains (all EC certainly) now have forward facing CCTV cameras in the cab. Perhaps it would be possible to send these pictures to screens on the bulkheads in the carriages (with a delay to stop any unpleasent pictures making it onto the screen!) but i cant imagine any kind of in seat entertainment centre ala an airline. The expense seems prohibitive (mind dont FGW have TV screens in some seat backs?)

 

[tagzy]

FGW do have screens in the so called 'entertainment carriage.' It ain't free though!

 

[googolplex]

Presumably EC could make it available on their WiFi portal though, with the appropriate delay. Then people could access it on their laptop, phone or ipod etc.

 

[Zoe]

i cant imagine any kind of in seat entertainment centre ala an airline. The expense seems prohibitive (mind dont FGW have TV screens in some seat backs?)

If you are lucky, some captains will activate the ATC channel so you can hear ATC communications. If a live cabview from the front of the train was available to passengers I expect there would be cases of pulling the emergency stop cord when they saw what they though was a SPAD but actually didn't no that the signal they were looking at didn't apply to the line they were on.

 

[DarloRich]

Presumably EC could make it available on their WiFi portal though, with the appropriate delay. Then people could access it on their laptop, phone or ipod etc.

Didnt think of that - a good idea. Might need a decent delay though

 

[RPM]

The departmental class 114 unit that was used for the trials of ATP has this feature - there's a classroom/saloon with a big screen that shows the view from up front. The unit is preserved at the Midland Railway Centre now. Picture here:
http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p32077222.html

 

[ian959]

They have it on Queensland Tilt Trains and believe me it really is not entertaining. Probably the worst idea ever if you ask me.

 

[Hydro]

Would there be issues with the forward facing CCTV as it's potentially a source of evidence, both for things like fatalities and for operational reasons? Near misses are well documented through forward facing CCTV. It's not as if you can watch your town centre CCTV for entertainment.

Conventional links from FF cameras are complex and pricey. You need links throughout, usually fibre optics a la NMT. That needs an electronics cabinet in each power car, plus wiring throughout. Whenever one of the trailer vehicles comes out, the system gets confused and stops sending signals throughout. When running as a 2+4 as it has done before, there are no nice camera views for the visitors. Several IM trains have cameras of some description or another for forward facing recording, and a lot of work and money goes into these systems. It won't be worth setting up merely to provide a bit of entertainment.

 

[mumrar]

folks,
This may sound a daft question..............I'm quite a nosey person.Whilst on long journeys l quite often get whiplash looking out of the train windows either side of the carrige

my question is....could it be possible to fit some sort of camera to the front of the train and beam the pictures to say some part of the carrige to allow a cab view of the journey.........l for one wouldn't mind paying extra for this.

anyone agree

Not a problem I've heard of, although calling it Whiplash is a little misleading. According to what I recall whiplash is an injury caused by the sudden back and forth or side to side movement of the head, which stretches ligaments. Surely you're not experiencing any of this whilst travelling by train.

It would be an expensive things to set up and maintain I'm afraid for a complaint I've not heard of from any passengers in my 13 years working on board.

Is the need to look out of the window similar to what seems to be a mainly female problem of not being able to sit backwards to the direction of travel on a train? This has always bewildered me and as to why it bothers mainly female passengers.

 

[tagzy]

Is the need to look out of the window similar to what seems to be a mainly female problem of not being able to sit backwards to the direction of travel on a train? This has always bewildered me and as to why it bothers mainly female passengers.

Can't they just lean forward and use the eyes on the back of their heads?

 

[Zoe]

Is the need to look out of the window similar to what seems to be a mainly female problem of not being able to sit backwards to the direction of travel on a train? This has always bewildered me and as to why it bothers mainly female passengers.

I often feel a bit sick if I can't see where I'm going. Same as if I can't see the road if I'm in a car.

 

[notadriver]

I was once told by a driving instructor that when travelling in a bus or coach that he sit at or near the front because a) he needed to see the road ahead so he didn't feel sick and b) so he could keep an eye on the driver in case they fell asleep.

 

[jopsuk]

A lot of older units had windows behind the drivers cabs- though the drivers could typically close blinds on them if they wanted. Even the german ICE3 have windows that allow you to see out the front, and some Japanese units are specifically designed this way, with a cab low down and seating above- some are oddly only double decker in the end carriages!

 

[Tom B]

Would there be issues with the forward facing CCTV as it's potentially a source of evidence, both for things like fatalities and for operational reasons? Near misses are well documented through forward facing CCTV. It's not as if you can watch your town centre CCTV for entertainment.

I am pretty sure that people who view CCTV of a "public area" are supposed to hold a SIA license and have gone on a training course in not-zooming-in-on-attractive-young-ladies and the like. Don't know if this would apply here, though.

 

[andyfrommk]

..I'm quite a nosey person.Whilst on long journeys l quite often get whiplash looking out of the train windows either side of the carrige

I'm like that, what I do is stand by the doors and look out of the windows, switching sides depending on which side is more interesting, also I stand facing the doors so there is no need to crane your neck for so long.

I suppose it goes back to when I rode slam door stock and stuck my head out of the window to get a better view

 

[33056]

DBS company train has (or did have!) the facility to relay pictures from the cab of the loco (or DVT) to a large screen in the "boardroom" coach. Not sure how many 67s have the camera fitted but 67029 certainly used to (and might still have).

 

[googolplex]

I am pretty sure that people who view CCTV of a "public area" are supposed to hold a SIA license and have gone on a training course in not-zooming-in-on-attractive-young-ladies and the like. Don't know if this would apply here, though.

I spent a summer working as a security guard in a supermarket, and we didn't have SIA licenses although we watched the CCTV. I enquired during the interview and was told that as they were security guards employed by the company and working for them, there was no need.
A couple of times the male trolley pushers or checkout workers would have a go on the CCTV and zoom in on attractive females. When I spotted them they normally stopped doing it when I pointed out that all footage from the cameras was recorded and the police in the past had come and acquired a whole day's worth of CCTV footage, which could include their zooming in!

I therefore don't think it should be a problem, and with an adequate delay there's unlikely to be anything sensitive, just railway track. If there's overlaid text explaining the footage is slightly delayed there shouldn't be any issues with people pulling emergency cords or similar thinking there was a SPAD.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure the cops wouldn't mind and would find it amusing, but it isn't professional.

Save that for the hidden camera in the bushes or changing rooms.. erm, I mean.. gotta go!

 

[Hydro]

I therefore don't think it should be a problem, and with an adequate delay there's unlikely to be anything sensitive, just railway track. If there's overlaid text explaining the footage is slightly delayed there shouldn't be any issues with people pulling emergency cords or similar thinking there was a SPAD.

That satisfied, we are left with the technical aspects of it. A wifi feed of standard forward facing CCTV accessed through a portal would be the most feasible way. An extra installation of bespoke cameras and data feeds would be just not be worth it, or really worth the extra maintenance headache.

A short delay would mean someone would have to kill the feed if anything untoward does happen, which means someone monitoring the output, which means an additional duty for train staff. Too long a delay and you may as well just show a video of random track. Too short and the feed may not be killed in time for Joe Bloggs watching a suicide (even animals would probably raise complaints).

I think there are just too many aspects that aren't too attractive to the likes of a Train Operating Company, however nice it is to see where you're going.

 

[ukrob]

And how much would we paying a person to 'watch and kill the feed if necessary' - it isn't a monitored feed. As above, it just isn't worth the expense.

 

[chuckles1066]

FGW do have screens in the so called 'entertainment carriage.' It ain't free though!

Five minutes is

On the single occasion I've managed to grab a seat on the Bath - Bristol service it was enough for me to fire up the GPS driven real time "where are we and what speed are we doing" mapping.

Can you believe the train didn't get above 90mph?

What's the point of having a congestion free route ahead of you if you don't utilise it?

 

[Zoe]

What's the point of having a congestion free route ahead of you if you don't utilise it?

125 mph on the GWML ends at Middle Hill Tunnel.

 

[The Planner]

Can you believe the train didn't get above 90mph?
What's the point of having a congestion free route ahead of you if you don't utilise it?

100mph top end between Bath and Bristol anyway.

 

[chuckles1066]

125 mph on the GWML ends at Middle Hill Tunnel.

I'm a rail newbie, can you enlighten me as to where that is?

And please don't say "somewhere in remote Wiltshire"

 

[Zoe]

I'm a rail newbie, can you enlighten me as to where that is?(

101 miles 39 chains MLN1. Basically just west of Box Tunnel between Chipenham and Bath.

 

[googolplex]

And how much would we paying a person to 'watch and kill the feed if necessary' - it isn't a monitored feed. As above, it just isn't worth the expense.

It would add to the complexity of it, but if a TOC were serious about deploying it, presumably it could be killed as soon as the emergency brake is activated and not re-enabled until the train starts to move again. With a delay of say 10 seconds that would hopefully prevent anything grisly being seen, as the driver is likely to hit the emergency brake whether it's a person or animal just to be sure either way.

It might be possible to use the location information system used on EC trains (the little map on the portal), however I'm not sure how accurate it is or if it even uses GPS.

As others have said, it's probably not worth the effort for a TOC to deploy other than for gimmick purposes to those who aren't railway enthusiasts.

 

[185]

Etihad Airways have front and down available at seat.....

There's always the issue in our country of some rather not-nice things being caught on camera, which unlucky traincrew have to deal with.

*SPLAT*

 

[Striker]

If you are lucky, some captains will activate the ATC channel so you can hear ATC communications.

This is United Airlines.

Etihad Airways have front and down available at seat.....

Many, many airlines have this feature. Not just Etihad.