Carousel Buses (Go-Ahead group)

[glennds999]

Are we certain that Reading own the Flightline brand? Could it be a Heathrow Airport initiative to create a common brand for the non TfL buses serving the airport? Heathrow have increased their support for buses in the last few years

Flightline is brand geared around services to Heathrow Airport - all services to use this branding will do so in partnership with airport. Reading Buses, Newbury & District and Carousel all work in partnership with Heathrow Airport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2024 ==

The Sunday Beaconsfield terminators run in a loop serving 1 or 2 stops in the old town that are otherwise missed but Uxbridge terminators serve the same stops as the 102. So the only distinction is that Heathrow is only served by the 102 and all 102s go to Heathrow.

Yes, we amended these services from August 2023, such that the 103 now serves Wilton Park in Beaconsfield, allowing the 101 and 102 to have a common route throughout (Mon to Sat for the time being).

 

[jackgwycombe]

I got the new leaflet in the post today and the Carousel logo is now 'Carousel Country' - anyone know the reasoning behind this rebrand?

 

[Busaholic]

I got the new leaflet in the post today and the Carousel logo is now 'Carousel Country' - anyone know the reasoning behind this rebrand?

No idea of the real reason, but the carousel was a popular feature of country fairs in England in the 19th century.

 

[Mgameing123]

Indeed, the 103 is very much like the old London Country 441 between High Wycombe and Windsor, although it used to run further to Staines at one time.

The 41 extending to Amersham means it will now interwork with the 106/107 between Amersham and Slough at the Amersham end, previously this interworking took place at Slough with the 103.

Yes its good to see a bit of expansion. The 41 extension says 'in partnership with Buckinghamshire County Council', while there used to be a service it does parallel the railway.

the 41 extension does help bridge the gap the 55 made when it got withdrawn. Though it would be cool if it went through Little Missenden.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2024 ==

If Carousel really want to take this seriously and see high figures, they need to look into ramping the frequency up to every 30 minutes. This could easily be done by combining 101 into 102 and going those extra few miles into Heathrow. I can see very few people counting on a low frequency bus to get them on their holidays.

Its up to Heathrow Airport if they want a service every 30 minutes because the Uxbridge to Heathrow section doesn't turn a profit.

 

[LUYMun]

I got the new leaflet in the post today and the Carousel logo is now 'Carousel Country' - anyone know the reasoning behind this rebrand?

No idea of the real reason, but the carousel was a popular feature of country fairs in England in the 19th century.

Or perhaps Carousel operates in the former London Country territory?

 

[Mgameing123]

Does anyone know how the new Flightline E400MMC will look like?

 

[Mgameing123]

Arriva Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

Do you think Carousel might takeover route 4 (former route 48). They used run the 48A back in the day from what I remember.

 

[K4016td]

I think either them or Redline. Both seem quite strong operators in the area.

 

[Mgameing123]

I think either them or Redline. Both seem quite strong operators in the area.

Redline isn't really big in High Wycombe. But who knows maybe they want to expand?

 

[K4016td]

Redline isn't really big in High Wycombe. But who knows maybe they want to expand?

I meant more of a whole Buckinghamshire rather than Wycombe but the question is if Carousel has the resources to handle more PVR - while they don't seem to have as many cancelled services as Arriva or First they still sometimes inform about them, whereas Redline creates an impression that they seem to be doing fine despite driver shortages - or is it only an impression?

 

[Mgameing123]

I meant more of a whole Buckinghamshire rather than Wycombe but the question is if Carousel has the resources to handle more PVR - while they don't seem to have as many cancelled services as Arriva or First they still sometimes inform about them, whereas Redline creates an impression that they seem to be doing fine despite driver shortages - or is it only an impression?

Only time will tell.

 

[Edvid]

Flightline-refurbished 609 (PS64 OXF) is tracking on the 102 today.

 

[Wolvercoter]

Also, Carousel have picked up service 4 from Arriva (with variation to route). Will replace 8/X8/28/28A.

Edit to include hyperlink which I neglected to include in the original post. https://www.carouselbuses.co.uk/service-8-revisions-19th-may-2024

Carousel Buses will introduce a new service 4, serving Lane End up to every 30 minutes and replacing services 8/X8/28/28A and Arriva service 4 from 19th May 2024
Buckinghamshire Council have entered into a contract with Carousel Buses to provide a new service to Lane End. Service 4 will be combined with the Park and Ride service, replacing the existing services 4, 8/X8 and 28/28A and run between Lane End, Booker, Cressex and the town centre. The good news for Lane End residents is that this service will now run every 30 minutes and provide new direct links to Handy Cross Coachway and Castle Street for the Railway Station.

Buses on service 4 will operate from High Wycombe via Wycombe General Hospital direct to the Coachway, before continuing to Cressex Industrial Estate, Booker Asda, Wycombe Air Park and Lane End. Service 4 will have the same route all day around Cressex to create a consistent service. Buses will no longer serve Wheeler End, New Road in Stokenchurch or Cadmore End.

A map of new service 4 is available here, and the new timetable is available here.

For passengers travelling from Sands on the existing Arriva service 4, High Wycombe PickMeUp will continue to provide a Demand Responsive Transport service to Hillbottom Road and Lane End Road.

 

[markymark2000]

Also, Carousel have picked up service 4 from Arriva (with variation to route). Will replace 8/X8/28/28A.

How many variations is the Park and Ride going to have? It seems to be one of the most unstable routes in the UK with endless changes to how it is operated.

 

[Deerfold]

Also, Carousel have picked up service 4 from Arriva (with variation to route). Will replace 8/X8/28/28A.

That's quite an impressive improvement for Lane End. I'm surprised there's no peak extensions to Cadmore End and Stokenchurch - they seem to have survived numerous changes to the structure of the route since I first caught them a decade ago.

The link to the news is: https://www.carouselbuses.co.uk/service-8-revisions-19th-may-2024

 

[Parebunks]

Some other changes coming in June, highlights quoted:
one

In partnership with Buckinghamshire Council, the one will be doubled in frequency on Sundays to operate up to every 30 minutes to Chesham. For the first time, there will be a Sunday service on Stanley Hill and Woodside Road. Journeys will better match the Monday to Saturday pattern, with buses to Hemel Hempstead operating as service 1 and buses to Pond Park operating as service 1A. We'll be operating earlier and later trips to provide better connectivity throughout the day.


Some Monday to Saturday running times will change to improve reliability. We will also be introducing a new later journey at 2230 from High Wycombe to Hazlemere and Holmer Green.


The first of our new the one branded Mercedes-Benz buses have hit the road and more of these will soon follow, featuring USB power and ambient lighting to make your journeys more comfortable.


To view the new times from 2nd June 2024, please click here.

103

Additionally, from 9th June 2024, we are excited to introduce a new Sunday service between High Wycombe and Slough. This will operate as new service X103, following the same route as service 103, except for operating via Beaconsfield Old Town and the A40 instead of New Town and Wilton Park.


To view the new times from 2nd June 2024, including the X103 from 9th June 2024, click here.

275

In light of continuing challenges to operate a reliable service due the variability of traffic conditions, we have worked with Oxfordshire County Council to devise a revised timetable for service 275 from 2nd June. This new timetable will continue to serve High Wycombe on the first trip towards Oxford and final trip of the day leaving Oxford. Through the middle of the day, buses will now run between Oxford City Centre and Red Kite Road in Chinnor. To view the new times from 2nd June 2024, please click here.

102

In partnership with Heathrow Airport, service 102 will be relaunched as Flightline 102. Our smart, refurbished, green double deck buses featuring free WiFi, USB charging ports, next stop audio visual announcements and luggage racks will be landing over the coming months.


It gets even better! From 2nd June 2024, buses will now operate up to every 30 minutes between High Wycombe, Beaconsfield, Gerrards Cross, Uxbridge and Heathrow Airport, Monday to Sunday daytime. As a result of this enhanced timetable, there is no longer a need for the 101 variant to operate.


To view the new times from 2nd June 2024, please click here.

The first refurbished buses for the one and 102 have in fact already launched - for the 102 these are refurbished ex-Brookes e400 MMCs displaced from Oxford, pictures here.

 

[markymark2000]

275

I love the text from Carousel regarding how to now travel between Oxford and High Wycombe (source is the same link as you have given)

During the day, travel between High Wycombe and Oxford can be made using service 4 to the Coachway Park & Ride and connecting with the airline to Oxford. Coaches on the airline operate up to every 20 minutes, 7 days a week.

They seem to forget to mention that the journey on the 275 can be done for £2. To do this via their suggested way, that is £2 to Coachway and then £15 single on Airline. Or for a return, currently £4, suggested way is £23 (2x£2 singles plus £19 Airline return). That is a huge hike to make the same journey. Always found it a shame that there isn't a ticket which includes Oxford Bus, Airline Oxford to High Wycombe and Carousel.

103

Such a missed opportunity in my opinion not extending one or two trips to Legoland to provide a big attraction link during peak season.

 

[PeterC]

I love the text from Carousel regarding how to now travel between Oxford and High Wycombe (source is the same link as you have given)

They seem to forget to mention that the journey on the 275 can be done for £2. To do this via their suggested way, that is £2 to Coachway and then £15 single on Airline. Or for a return, currently £4, suggested way is £23 (2x£2 singles plus £19 Airline return). That is a huge hike to make the same journey. Always found it a shame that there isn't a ticket which includes Oxford Bus, Airline Oxford to High Wycombe and Carousel.

Probably the quickest route by bus/coach but you can do it for £4 each way by changing at Thame using Red Rose and Arriva or Redline.

 

[Mollman]

Some other changes coming in June, highlights quoted:
one

103

275

102

The first refurbished buses for the one and 102 have in fact already launched - for the 102 these are refurbished ex-Brookes e400 MMCs displaced from Oxford, pictures here.

Some interesting changes. I wonder if we'll now get people thinking Reading Buses have taken over the 102, a bit surprised there wasn't any red to distinguish it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They seem to forget to mention that the journey on the 275 can be done for £2. To do this via their suggested way, that is £2 to Coachway and then £15 single on Airline. Or for a return, currently £4, suggested way is £23 (2x£2 singles plus £19 Airline return). That is a huge hike to make the same journey. Always found it a shame that there isn't a ticket which includes Oxford Bus, Airline Oxford to High Wycombe and Carousel.

Erm... isn't this because the new times on the 275 (on the same link) show that aside from the morning/evening placement journeys, it's now a Chinnor to Oxford service?

I guess that they don't want local passengers paying £2 between Wycombe and Oxford and using up capacity that they would sell at a premium, or ticket splitting from Gatwick/Heathrow to Oxford and so losing revenue.

 

[Deerfold]

I'm not

Erm... isn't this because the new times on the 275 (on the same link) show that aside from the morning/evening placement journeys, it's now a Chinnor to Oxford service?

I guess that they don't want local passengers paying £2 between Wycombe and Oxford and using up capacity that they would sell at a premium, or ticket splitting from Gatwick/Heathrow to Oxford and so losing revenue.

I'm not sure of your point. Yes, it's no longer a High Wycombe to Oxford service, but the alternative suggested to those already using it is 8 times the price. Cheaper to get the train without having to go a long way round.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not
I'm not sure of your point. Yes, it's no longer a High Wycombe to Oxford service, but the alternative suggested to those already using it is 8 times the price. Cheaper to get the train without having to go a long way round.

I'm not sure why you're unsure

@markymark2000 suggested that they were promoting this option in preference to the direct 275 for £2 a throw. However, as we can see, the 275 won't be running from Wycombe (except for a positioning run), so it's difficult to promote the 275 as an option!

 

[markymark2000]

I'm not sure why you're unsure

@markymark2000 suggested that they were promoting this option in preference to the direct 275 for £2 a throw. However, as we can see, the 275 won't be running from Wycombe (except for a positioning run), so it's difficult to promote the 275 as an option!

I don't dispute that you can't promote the 275 as an option anymore. No issues there. The way it's said though, sounds very much like you can still make the journey, the only difference is you have to change buses. Thats ok, we see that kind of message all of the time when changes are made. The one very specific issue I have here is what I and Deerfold have said, that being, the lack of promotion of the cost of this new journey. As well as the fare being a rip off, it's not very good to suggest it's just as easy to travel that way without telling people that their fare will increase by 8 times. My view is that just no alternative should have been given as the only alternatives are competitors (I understand why they may not wish to promote them) or they aren't like for like, you're forcing passengers onto essentially, a premium product and not informing them of the consequences of that.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't dispute that you can't promote the 275 as an option anymore. No issues there. The way it's said though, sounds very much like you can still make the journey, the only difference is you have to change buses. Thats ok, we see that kind of message all of the time when changes are made. The one very specific issue I have here is what I and Deerfold have said, that being, the lack of promotion of the cost of this new journey. As well as the fare being a rip off, it's not very good to suggest it's just as easy to travel that way without telling people that their fare will increase by 8 times. My view is that just no alternative should have been given as the only alternatives are competitors (I understand why they may not wish to promote them) or they aren't like for like, you're forcing passengers onto essentially, a premium product and not informing them of the consequences of that.

Airline is a premium product and they understandably don't want to lose capacity to people travelling for £2, or people trying to ticket split (and you know that would happen).

If you think that saying nothing was the best policy....then I tend to agree. Doubtless, there might have been some who'd have complained about the loss of the Wycombe to Oxford link but saying nothing might have been simpler. It interpret it as a genuine attempt to constructively provide an alternative rather than anything more sinister.

 

[Parebunks]

Much of this discussion r.e. the 275 is a moot point - very few people are using it the whole way through especially since the direct train started. It's always been a de minimis contract, there have never been numbers travelling end to end even compared to other Oxford routes like the S2 to Cheltenham. The new arrangement provides basically all the important links, it's just a shame connections aren't better onto the 40 at Chinnor. I don't think Carousel are seriously expecting many people to use the Airline as an alternative, just an understandable desire to not be directly promoting the competition.

 

[PeterC]

Much of this discussion r.e. the 275 is a moot point - very few people are using it the whole way through especially since the direct train started. It's always been a de minimis contract, there have never been numbers travelling end to end even compared to other Oxford routes like the S2 to Cheltenham. The new arrangement provides basically all the important links, it's just a shame connections aren't better onto the 40 at Chinnor. I don't think Carousel are seriously expecting many people to use the Airline as an alternative, just an understandable desire to not be directly promoting the competition.

Far easier to change from the 40 to the frequent mix of Arriva and Redline services at Thame.

Was there ever a major flow between Wycombe and Oxford? Apart from one person being treated at the JR I can't recall meeting anybody in this part of Bucks who thought of Oxford as a "destination" by any mode.

 

[greenline712]

Far easier to change from the 40 to the frequent mix of Arriva and Redline services at Thame.

Was there ever a major flow between Wycombe and Oxford? Apart from one person being treated at the JR I can't recall meeting anybody in this part of Bucks who thought of Oxford as a "destination" by any mode.

I know the mods might not like this, but anyway .....
In the 1980s Green Line and Oxford Bus ran a 290/790 joint coach every hour between Wycombe and Oxford. In around 1987, Oxford transferred their coaches to the 190 non-stop route.

The Green Line route continued for some years, reducing to 2-hourly, but eventually was withdrawn (around 2000?); being replaced by the 275 route every 2-3 hours on a contracted basis. It has been at the present service level for several years, and I guess that passenger numbers have now fallen so low that the route is barely sustainable in financial terms.

I may have the basic timeline slightly wrong, but quite simply there was only limited through patronage(even 25 years ago), and any short-riders have withered away as well; not that there were ever many.
The route needs to be closed ...

 

[Deerfold]

Far easier to change from the 40 to the frequent mix of Arriva and Redline services at Thame.

Just a shame that the 40 isn't included in the £2 fare scheme.

 

[Mgameing123]

Honestly the 275 doesn't actually make sense. Sure it might improve reliability but is it worth the cost of getting rid of bus services to Bledlow Ridge?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know the mods might not like this, but anyway .....
In the 1980s Green Line and Oxford Bus ran a 290/790 joint coach every hour between Wycombe and Oxford. In around 1987, Oxford transferred their coaches to the 190 non-stop route.

The Green Line route continued for some years, reducing to 2-hourly, but eventually was withdrawn (around 2000?); being replaced by the 275 route every 2-3 hours on a contracted basis. It has been at the present service level for several years, and I guess that passenger numbers have now fallen so low that the route is barely sustainable in financial terms.

I may have the basic timeline slightly wrong, but quite simply there was only limited through patronage(even 25 years ago), and any short-riders have withered away as well; not that there were ever many.
The route needs to be closed ...

I seem to recall travelling on the Oxford to Wycombe route c.2000 with a mate, and had to try and dredge the memory banks.

I didn't think it was the 290. Checking on timetable world, it was the 290 on Sundays but the rest of the week was the 300 which does chime with my vague recollection. It apparently ran every two hours from Oxford, and hourly Wycombe to Uxbridge.

Again, caveats for my memory but I think (!) it may have been a former Wycombe Bus Verde though in Arriva ownership (but not their colours). I don't recall it having many shoppers on board for a Saturday afternoon run south.