Xenophon PCDGS
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Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?
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As we are fast approaching the start of the pantomime season, through the thoughtful actions of the forum staff and the genie of the lamp, your wish has now been granted.
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Doctor Fegg
Established Member
Does this thread not belong in the speculation section? I thought I would contribute this thought, just to help its aim of being the longest running fantasy thread on UK Rail. By the way, I liked the suggestion of Paul S of this parish, many moons ago, of rejoining the Carmarthen LMS line to Llandeilo, as that could help the West Wales tourist industry better, and give the residents another escape route to England!
It's pretty certain to become a cycleway, which will be a truly lovely ride. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/work-starts-cycle-walking-route-14249254
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
All seems to have gone very ,very quiet.
I wonder why. ?
I wonder why. ?
squizzler
Established Member
It maybe because many of us who wish to discuss the merits of the scheme are put off from doing so by the so-called realists piling on to disparage the whole thing.
This is the Speculative Ideas forum. There should be nobody posting disparaging or "realist" comments towards speculation or ideas in the Speculative Ideas forum!
So if I propose a narrow guage network, largely underground, linking the villages in south east Essex then nobody should point out the disadvantages? (A plan that I developed when I was 10 or 11).
I agree about disparaging comments but some realism is needed. After all the forum title is "Speculative Ideas" not "Fantasy Ideas"
Pointing out the disadvantages of a plan is not the same thing as making disparaging comments towards it, or implying that the suggestion should never have been brought up.
You're quite entitled to create a thread about that if you want to, with a suitable title and in the appropriate forum. People are then quite entitled to reply pointing out the disadvantages - although not to complain that the suggestion or idea was posted.
krus_aragon
Established Member
Or, in other words, is a "realistic ideas" forum a realistic idea?
Ah, but who decides what is realistic and what isn’t?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I thought the reason to post in the speculative ideas forum was that it wasn't any kind of official proposal, not to do with its merit or otherwise.
Perhaps we should have a "stupid ideas" forum. Then every one else knows the OP thinks it is a stupid idea, so don't waste any electrons pointing it out.
Bevan Price
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I suggest that pointing out the flaws in speculative schemes is not necessarily disparaging. Converting ideas into reality often costs £££££££££, and there needs to be a sensible prospect of recovering at least a good proportion of that money, otherwise it will never get anywhere. Like many others, I wish that Marples-Beeching had never happened, and that almost everything was still steam worked - but that only means that I am sometimes in dreamland.
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The speculative ideas section came about as a result of feedback received and discussions at forum meals, so it does have an impact.
Anyway, to clarify, speculation could be about anything; an idea that isn't realistic, or an idea that could actually happen. Or maybe speculation about how something that is happening will develop.
We absolutely understand some people do not want to read speculative ideas; we received feedback along those lines before this area was created. So now people can easily avoid them, as not only have we retained the existing rule regarding thread titles being descriptive but we also require speculation is kept here. As it's easy for people to avoid threads they do not want to read, there should be reduced conflict.
However if conflict does occur, our forum rules make it clear that the report button should be used (please do not reply to, react to or re-publish any content that is causing particular concern).
But can we get back on topic please?
There should be no suggestion that people should not be welcome to propose to reopen Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, but people should be equally welcome to give reasons why the proposal is unlikely to happen, or why they feel it should not happen. None of this should be done in a disrespectful way from either angle.
My personal view is that it would be a nice thing to have but there must be dozens of more realistic re-openings that would cost less, benefit more people, and have a greater impact. Do I think it will actually happen? No.
And if you want to have a chat with us, feel free to join us at a forum event, such as our popular forum meals (and if cost is an issue, we may be able to help with this). If this is of interest, please do contact me.
The speculative ideas section came about as a result of feedback received and discussions at forum meals, so it does have an impact.
Anyway, to clarify, speculation could be about anything; an idea that isn't realistic, or an idea that could actually happen. Or maybe speculation about how something that is happening will develop.
We absolutely understand some people do not want to read speculative ideas; we received feedback along those lines before this area was created. So now people can easily avoid them, as not only have we retained the existing rule regarding thread titles being descriptive but we also require speculation is kept here. As it's easy for people to avoid threads they do not want to read, there should be reduced conflict.
However if conflict does occur, our forum rules make it clear that the report button should be used (please do not reply to, react to or re-publish any content that is causing particular concern).
But can we get back on topic please?
There should be no suggestion that people should not be welcome to propose to reopen Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, but people should be equally welcome to give reasons why the proposal is unlikely to happen, or why they feel it should not happen. None of this should be done in a disrespectful way from either angle.
My personal view is that it would be a nice thing to have but there must be dozens of more realistic re-openings that would cost less, benefit more people, and have a greater impact. Do I think it will actually happen? No.
Mr Apples
Member
What is the current status of the proposal to reopen Carmarthen - Aberystwyth? Is it still a possibility, or has it been ruled out yet?
Nothing that can't be solved with a pointless £1bn political bung....
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
A very quotable example of "clutching at political straws" with as much chance of success as this country approaching all countries from which the Viking invaders of Britain came to also "demand compensation" for all the sacking of towns and Christian religious house and associated murders committed by those Vikings....
krus_aragon
Established Member
Ah yes. While we're at it, remind me to send a deputation to Rome to ask what they're going to do about Suetonius Paulinus' deforestation of Anglesey two millennia ago...A very quotable example of "clutching at political straws" with as much chance of success as this country approaching all countries from which the Viking invaders of Britain came to also "demand compensation" for all the sacking of towns and Christian religious house and associated murders committed by those Vikings....
Until there is any news, there is no point continuing this thread.
Having done the route by bus a few weeks ago, I can confidently say there is not sufficient demand for the route to open. The bus was never full, despite being free to use. And the majority of passengers who used the bus during the journey would not have been able to use the train, as they joined or left at intermediate points that were not on the railway line.
Having done the route by bus a few weeks ago, I can confidently say there is not sufficient demand for the route to open. The bus was never full, despite being free to use. And the majority of passengers who used the bus during the journey would not have been able to use the train, as they joined or left at intermediate points that were not on the railway line.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
How about some compensation for all the unspoilt land of rural Wales that was desecrated by the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line? To say nothing of the original M&MH route north of Strata Florida which never even got finished.
The T1 bus isn't a particularly attractive option for an end-to-end journey though. It's been a few years since I last went on the T1, but I think they are still using Enviro 300s with the same seats and (lack of) legroom as used on much shorter routes. The only remotely 'premium' features they have are WiFi and (fake-)leather seat covers. The journey from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth by bus is also significantly slower than private car, the review done a few years ago recomended a study to establish the maximum journey time penalty passengers would be prepared to accept; as far as I am aware such a study was never undertaken.
I will say this about the proposed reopenning of Carmarthen-Aberystwyth (or indeed pretty much any other reopenning of a route that has been lifted and the land sold off); unless you can guarantee that the rail journey will be faster than Google Maps and the AA route planner give for car journeys then it is probably not worth the capital costs of construction. In the case of Carmarthen-Aberystwyth, if the rail service would be slower than driving anyway, I would instead suggest investing in a new fleet of buses with much better legroom and possibly the 'coach-style' seats used on the initial TrawsCymru vehicles (now used on the Cardiff Airport Express I think, unless they've been replaced relatively recently), speeding up the service by missing out the detour via Pencader and putting on a new hourly service to serve Pencader.
A rail service that is faster than driving might however be worth having, but would likely significantly increase the cost.
Did the Manchester & Milford railway even get started on the section between Strata Florida and Llangurig? I know they built Llanidloes to Llangurig (think that line only ever had one train service run on it) but did they start any work on the other section at all?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think I read somewhere that they did, but can't remember where so can't quote a source. On OS/aerial maps there's a land boundary just to the north of where the line makes its sudden dive towards Aber that looks as if it would have been a site for a through station but now has some houses on it. Further north there are various features on the aerial views that might with some stretch of the imagination be bits of earthwork, such as this field boundary, but it's impossible to tell without visiting (and maybe not even then).
https://binged.it/2oPOeyt
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
You are correct. For a period of one day only, the Llanidloes and Newtown Railway hired the truncated Llangurig branch and a train of the Mid-Wales Railway ran a goods train service on that line for which they were charged for the line use and that experiment was never repeated again.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
As a local:
There is a small excavation area for the Llangurig side tunnel portal in the Myherin Forestry Complex but it is not publicly accessible. I do have the map reference. I'm not sure about on the other side of the mountain. There was also some test diggings in the bank of the Afon Gwy for a bridge but these were destroyed by flooding many years ago.
The line from Penpontbren Junction was certainly built towards Llangurig village but local stories say it never actually reached the village. There are certainly bridge walls just beyond The Blue Bell and some earthworks parallel with the A44 for a short distance afterwards. It was probably a contractors train that used it and allegedly a Royal Train used a short section of it near the Penpontbren Junction overnight once.
70014IronDuke
Established Member
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More likely some pills containing banned substances.
70014IronDuke
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Thanks, interesting to know that they were actually serious enough about it at one point to actually have started work.
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