Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[ChiefPlanner]

Are you referring to the EU financial aid to the outermost regions of the EU that is part of their Cohesive Policy Funding scheme which is part of its European Regional Development and its European Social Fund?

Mostly spent in Poland etc....

Ireland and Spain did very well 10+ years ago from the EU - since then the money has (I believe) - gone elsewhere.

On a positive note - the £500K per annum on MEP's could be recycled into worthwhile outputs as opposed to "hot air and no action" - this would buy about 8 fully trained midwives , 20 school assistants - or even half a carriage ....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite - the ghosts of Manchester - Milford can rest.

Indeed so and not forgetting that railway's ambitious plans for the Llangurig branch line which would have joined their railway to that of the Mid-Wales railway and brought the railway to serve the historical settlement of Ystrad Meurig.

 

[najaB]

On a positive note - the £500K per annum on MEP's...

Again, it's not a zero-sum game: money not spent in one place is not automatically available to spend somewhere else. But I'm sure you know that already.

 

[furnessvale]

Clearly a social planning policy is not something you've ever considered. I don't think the scheme should have been automatically funded, but we should definitely consider the effects these lines have outside of immediate economic gain, which is something the EU always did in deprived areas.

And drop the "common sense" rubbish - it's just code for "people who think like me".

So you do think this ridiculous scheme should have been at least considered, especially given the largesse of the EU with our money.

Looking back in this thread that puts you firmly in the minority, a bit like your vote to remain, and don't even attempt the remainers bulls**t about percentages who didn't vote being added to your side.

A simple majority of those voting was asked for, and a simple majority of those voting was obtained.

 

[TheKnightWho]

So you do think this ridiculous scheme should have been at least considered, especially given the largesse of the EU with our money.

Looking back in this thread that puts you firmly in the minority, a bit like your vote to remain, and don't even attempt the remainers bulls**t about percentages who didn't vote being added to your side.

A simple majority of those voting was asked for, and a simple majority of those voting was obtained.

Gloat all you like - the point remains that the social value of schemes should always be considered. Like I said, I don't necessarily support this scheme, but feel free to childishly consider everyone who doesn't believe exactly the same as you your opponent who believes some strawman opinion that it gives you fuzzy feelings about when you shoot it down.

You can have your little circlejerk over your Pyrrhic victory and it's no skin off my back (it says a lot that you're so defensive given you've got nothing positive to point to).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Indeed so and not forgetting that railway's ambitious plans for the Llangurig branch line which would have joined their railway to that of the Mid-Wales railway and brought the railway to serve the historical settlement of Ystrad Meurig.

Time for a bit of Welsh

"Mae'r dail y coed yn Ystrad Flur yn murmaid yn yr awel ,a deuddeng Abad yn y gro yn hunod ynon dawel"

In other words - in Strata Florida - it is s peaceful you can hear the leaves fall and the sleeping (buried) Abbots are at rest.

Strata Florida being the boundary point in GWR days from the South Wales division to the Mid Wales Division.

 

[najaB]

So you do think this ridiculous scheme should have been at least considered, especially given the largesse of the EU with our money.

All proposed schemes should be considered, evaluated and progressed if there are positive benefits and shelved if there aren't.

That way those who support them are treated with the respect they deserve, rather than being treated with the contempt you seem to be displaying.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Again, it's not a zero-sum game: money not spent in one place is not automatically available to spend somewhere else. But I'm sure you know that already.

Of course I do - but merely saying that the overall spend on certain worthless things can produce benefits elsewhere !

My midwife wife was out all last night - on call -home birth - after a 12 hour day - guess what - she was called at 0800 hours if she was available for work.

A short answer - but money can be spent macro-economically as ell as micro- economically on better things than postulating bureaucrats.

About £500K per MEP by the way.....

 

[TheKnightWho]

Of course I do - but merely saying that the overall spend on certain worthless things can produce benefits elsewhere !

My midwife wife was out all last night - on call -home birth - after a 12 hour day - guess what - she was called at 0800 hours if she was available for work.

A short answer - but money can be spent macro-economically as ell as micro- economically on better things than postulating bureaucrats.

About £500K per MEP by the way.....

Well that would be great if there was a fixed, finite amount of wealth which we reclaim on a whim, but it's a bit more complicated than that But I feel we're getting off-topic.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Clearly a social planning policy is not something you've ever considered. I don't think the scheme should have been automatically funded, but we should definitely consider the effects these lines have outside of immediate economic gain, which is something the EU always did in deprived areas.

And drop the "common sense" rubbish - it's just code for "people who think like me".

Rail lines aren't the only way to connect some places into the railway network, there are alternatives.

 

[najaB]

A short answer - but money can be spent macro-economically as ell as micro- economically on better things than postulating bureaucrats.

About £500K per MEP by the way.....

But MEP's aren't unique in that regards. To be honest, I think I get better value for money from my MEP than I do from any of my local councillor, regional MSPs, MSP or MP.

 

[Llanigraham]

No surprise at all, except for the angle that people are trying to blame Brexit.

But the Westminster government have now stated that Wales will not be receiving the equivalent amount they previously received from the EU, so this is caused by our exit.

 

[Bald Rick]

Rail lines aren't the only way to connect some places into the railway network, there are alternatives.

Or, for the expected demand on this line...

 

[furnessvale]

All proposed schemes should be considered, evaluated and progressed if there are positive benefits and shelved if there aren't.

That way those who support them are treated with the respect they deserve, rather than being treated with the contempt you seem to be displaying.

If you read my posts you will see that my contempt is aimed at those remainers who seem determined to blame everything that goes wrong on the Brexit vote.

Gloat! You bet I do! Having had weeks of abuse from remainers who were so sure they would win I am only doing what they would be doing had the vote gone the other way.

That is me finished on this topic. It has now wandered OT and I am sure the mods will be here shortly.

 

[6Gman]

Or, for the expected demand on this line...

Like button needed!

 

[TheKnightWho]

If you read my posts you will see that my contempt is aimed at those remainers who seem determined to blame everything that goes wrong on the Brexit vote.

Gloat! You bet I do! Having had weeks of abuse from remainers who were so sure they would win I am only doing what they would be doing had the vote gone the other way.

That is me finished on this topic. It has now wandered OT and I am sure the mods will be here shortly.

Abuse? The 400% spike in racism is abuse. You're clearly completely coddled if you think that people disagreeing with you and saying you're wrong is "abuse".

 

[6Gman]

Time for a bit of Welsh

"Mae'r dail y coed yn Ystrad Flur yn murmaid yn yr awel ,a deuddeng Abad yn y gro yn hunod ynon dawel"

In other words - in Strata Florida - it is s peaceful you can hear the leaves fall and the sleeping (buried) Abbots are at rest.

Strata Florida being the boundary point in GWR days from the South Wales division to the Mid Wales Division.

Buried abbots = "latent demand" presumably.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Well that would be great if there was a fixed, finite amount of wealth which we reclaim on a whim, but it's a bit more complicated than that But I feel we're getting off-topic.

Yes - quite right - just a point as to where people would rather have their tax-pounds spent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Let us not labour the pint - but there is a very decent bus service from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth - there is apparently a Cardiff to Aber bus which replicates the good train servie from Cadiff to Carmarthen.

If this was rerouted to go ( a local suggestion) - from Neath to Ammanford then Llandeilo - Talley etc to Lampeter then along the coast road from Aberaeron it would (a) cut the corner (b) restore links from Ammanford and the Towy Valley to Mid Wales.


A smidgeon of costs andf very affordable I suggest.

 

[Harbornite]

I think the focus should be on reopening Caernarfon to Bangor, with the potential of extending to Afonwen and rejoinin the Cambrian. This scheme seems to be slightly more realistic.

 

[Emyr]

A simple majority of those voting was asked for, and a simple majority of those voting was obtained.

Actually no, "victory" wasn't defined by the European Referendum Act as it was only ever an advisory poll. It would be entirely legal for the government to decide that the deals available would ruin the country completely and it wasn't worth it.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Let us not labour the pint - but there is a very decent bus service from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth - there is apparently a Cardiff to Aber bus which replicates the good train servie from Cadiff to Carmarthen.

Monday-Saturday, there are hourly buses between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. I've still not done a long journey on it (the full journey is normally 2hrs 15mins or more), but I've done short hops and was far from impressed with the quality of the buses used. The Cardiff to Aberystwyth service is a coach, two trips Mon-Sat and one on Sundays, not been on that so I can't say if it is any good. The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth bus is only four trips on a Sunday.

Overall, I wouldn't describe the current Camarthen-Aberystwyth links as a 'very decent' bus service at all. Adequate for intermediate journeys perhaps, apart from the poor Sunday frequency, but for long-distance journeys there's a lot of room for improvement.

I think the focus should be on reopening Caernarfon to Bangor, with the potential of extending to Afonwen and rejoinin the Cambrian. This scheme seems to be slightly more realistic.

The TrawsLinkCymru group promoting Carmarthen-Aberystwyth also have asperations for Bangor-Afonwen and speeding up Carmarthen-Cardiff I believe, but Carmarthen-Aberystwyth is their 'phase 1'. Personally, I think they should have put Carmarthen-Cardiff improvements plus Bangor-Caernarfon at the top of their list, along with safeguarding of alignments for Carmarthen-Aberystwyth and Caernarfon-Porthmadog*, in the hope that doing Carmarthen-Cardiff and Bangor-Caernarfon would prove successful and help make the case for more. Starting with Carmarthen-Aberystwyth, probably the hardest of the three, doesn't make sense to me.

* that's another point I differ with their opinion, rather than using the old Afonwen route throughout I like the suggestion I've read elsewhere of trying to find a new route from Bryncir to Portmadog to cut the corner.

 

[Harbornite]

The TrawsLinkCymru group promoting Carmarthen-Aberystwyth also have asperations for Bangor-Afonwen and speeding up Carmarthen-Cardiff I believe, but Carmarthen-Aberystwyth is their 'phase 1'. Personally, I think they should have put Carmarthen-Cardiff improvements plus Bangor-Caernarfon at the top of their list, along with safeguarding of alignments for Carmarthen-Aberystwyth and Caernarfon-Porthmadog*, in the hope that doing Carmarthen-Cardiff and Bangor-Caernarfon would prove successful and help make the case for more. Starting with Carmarthen-Aberystwyth, probably the hardest of the three, doesn't make sense to me.

* that's another point I differ with their opinion, rather than using the old Afonwen route throughout I like the suggestion I've read elsewhere of trying to find a new route from Bryncir to Portmadog to cut the corner.

I wasn't aware that an alternative trackbed was being sought. Either way, it should have priority over Carmarthen- Aber.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rail lines aren't the only way to connect some places into the railway network, there are alternatives.

I must now have lost count over the years when long-closed railway routes spring forth on aspirational reopening schemes that tend to completely overlook the fact that on some of these routes, there have been road improvement for the car-owning population to use or the existing provision of adequate bus services.

Fortunately for all concerned, threads concerning the aspirations of canal reuse with fast fly-shuttle boats is something, fortunately, that seems to have been held in check....

 

[The Ham]

Or, for the expected demand on this line...

Buy two and we'll have spare capacity for the next 50 years.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I must now have lost count over the years when long-closed railway routes spring forth on aspirational reopening schemes that tend to completely overlook the fact that on some of these routes, there have been road improvement for the car-owning population to use or the existing provision of adequate bus services.

The issue in my mind is that bus services are often far from adequate to attract pepole out of cars. For example as I posted above the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth buses take over two and a quarter hours, the AA route planner says it takes just 1hr 21mins to drive it. The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth bus isn't as direct as it could be, but even buses that direct routes struggle to do better than 33% slower than driving (and I don't think there's anything between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth that manages even that).

If a train could do it in 1hr 20mins or less it is worth talking about at least. If that is not possible, then in my opinion it is most certainly not worth doing.

I wasn't aware that an alternative trackbed was being sought. Either way, it should have priority over Carmarthen- Aber.

Sadly, the idea of not using Afonwen doesn't come from TrawsLinkCymru, they are just proposing putting back the old route. The idea of a shorter route, which I think is a better idea, comes from Syniadau, unfortunately the map on that page which showed the proposal appears to be broken.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The issue in my mind is that bus services are often far from adequate to attract pepole out of cars. For example as I posted above the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth buses take over two and a quarter hours, the AA route planner says it takes just 1hr 21mins to drive it. The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth bus isn't as direct as it could be, but even buses that direct routes struggle to do better than 33% slower than driving (and I don't think there's anything between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth that manages even that).

If a train could do it in 1hr 20mins or less it is worth talking about at least. If that is not possible, then in my opinion it is most certainly not worth doing.

How do you travel to the railway station from where you live and from the railway station to the destination you are going to, remembering that both those journey times have to be added to the total travel time.

Very few travel journeys terminate at the railway station that you are travelling to.

 

[najaB]

Very few travel journeys terminate at the railway station that you are travelling to.

Since a comparison made was to the bus, you could equally say "Very few travel journeys terminate at the bus station that you are travelling to."

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Parting comment - the M4 "relief" (Newport to Cardiff) road is apparently quietly dropped according to Wales on Line , - £1 Billion scheme , indicative perhaps of reality in terms of funding .....

 

[Greenback]

I'm pleased that the M4 relief section is being dropped, assuming that the report is correct. We should be putting money into public transport with plenty of room for future growth.

However, for Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, this would mean buses or coaches. I quite like Scottish Citylink, and I would be happy for them to be used as a template for long distance bus services in Wales.

 

[Harbornite]

I'm pleased that the M4 relief section is being dropped, assuming that the report is correct. We should be putting money into public transport with plenty of room for future growth.

However, for Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, this would mean buses or coaches. I quite like Scottish Citylink, and I would be happy for them to be used as a template for long distance bus services in Wales.

I can't recall your stance on reopening Afonwen- bangor or Caernarfon- Bangor. What's your opinion of those proposals?