Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[Greenback]

There is some demand for travel between the place that would served by a reopened line, there is no doubt of that. There will eb those who want to travel between Lampeter and Welshpool, just as there will be those who might wish to travel between Ystalyfera and Craven Arms.

The question is whether it's economically justifiable. The railway can't be expected to cater for every possible flow, that line of thinking went out decades ago.

I don't think that there will be any great difference in journey times between Aber and the Cambrian Coast via Carmarthen as opposed to via Shrewsbury. There certainly won't be enough to attract droves of new rail users, when they could drive the same journey in much less than by either route.

Realistically we're looking at whether there is sufficient demand for journeys to and from intermediate stops, maybe that includes Aber to Llanelli, Llanybydder to Port Talbot and Tregaron to Kidwelly, but even including all of the possible permutations, I still don't think that the demand is there in sufficient numbers.

Even if I did, there would then be the question of whether there are more deserving cases for reopening.

 

[HSTEd]

You might get somewhere with some sort of light rail pseudo-tram thing that could cut the capital cost down, but heavy rail is not going to get an acceptable BCR in a million years.

 

[Envoy]

Lewis Coaches of Llanrhystyd - run scheduled services between Aberystwyth & Cardiff taking 4 hours 10 minutes. The train (via Shrewsbury change), takes about the same time with the cheapest fares being £19.50 one way = £39 return. So, Lewis coaches do a day return for £20.
http://www.lewis-coaches.co.uk/services/701-express-coach-service

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lewis Coaches of Llanrhystyd - run scheduled services between Aberystwyth & Cardiff taking 4 hours 10 minutes. The train (via Shrewsbury change), takes about the same time with the cheapest fares being £19.50 one way = £39 return. So, Lewis coaches do a day return for £20.
http://www.lewis-coaches.co.uk/services/701-express-coach-service

There we are then - job done !

 

[Rhydgaled]

I don't know to be honest. Swansea still provides employment and shopping opportunities within it's catchment area, which I would have thought extends to Ferryside at least in railway terms. There certainly used to commuters from there when I was travelling on a daily basis from Llanelli to Swansea.

My guess (and it is just a guess) would be that commuting-for-employment travel to/from Swansea extends as far as Carmarthen.

My view is Bangor to at least Llangefni. Getting to Llangefni makes a central railhead where commuters can cross the Menai Straits by train, sneaking underneath the tailbacks on the Britannia Bridge. After that, there's limited gains until you go all the way to Amlwch. Llanerchymedd isn't the beating metropolis it used to be, and Rhosgoch and Llangwyllog never were.

I agree there's no point going past Llangefni without going all the way to Amlwch, I just think if you're re-openning to Llangefni you might as well take the line right through to Amlwch.

The hourly service has proved if you provide an average rail service it will be utilised far more than a Bus ever will even in a rural area.

Yes, but the question isn't whether the train would be used more than the bus. For me at least, the question is whether the train service could reduce car usage enough to cut greenhouse gas emissions. I used to think that was a given if the train was fast enough (1hr 20mins or quicker in the case of Carmarthen-Aberystwyth I think), but comments earlier in this topic have questioned that.

Even if I did, there would then be the question of whether there are more deserving cases for reopening.

That's a good point, even if Carmarthen-Aberystwyth would be benifitial you can't re-open everything that's worth reopenning overnight and it makes sense to do the ones with bigger benifits first.

Lewis Coaches of Llanrhystyd - run scheduled services between Aberystwyth & Cardiff taking 4 hours 10 minutes. The train (via Shrewsbury change), takes about the same time with the cheapest fares being £19.50 one way = £39 return. So, Lewis coaches do a day return for £20.
http://www.lewis-coaches.co.uk/services/701-express-coach-service

TrawsLinkCymru's old pamphlet says Aberystwyth-Cardiff by train via Carmarthen would take 3hrs. The trouble is the AA route planner says it can be driven in 2hrs 31mins.

 

[Greenback]

You might be right about there being some commuting into Swansea from Carmarthen. I don't think that there is a lot, although this is based on my observations on the trains over around 7 years . I admit that this is not the most reliable sort of evidence!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

At hustings in Cardiff, Jeremy Corbyn pledged support for this reopening. Owen Smith appeared to agree...

 

[Bald Rick]

At hustings in Cardiff, Jeremy Corbyn pledged support for this reopening. Owen Smith appeared to agree...

Well they both just lost my vote!

 

[PHILIPE]

At hustings in Cardiff, Jeremy Corbyn pledged support for this reopening. Owen Smith appeared to agree...

He's probably heard of the campaign and jumping on the wagon just to promise something without any thought to the practicability of it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well they both just lost my vote!

For the leadership? Or for PM in 2020 (or whenever)?

He's probably heard of the campaign and jumping on the wagon just to promise something without any thought to the practicability of it.

You're probably right. If they were to look into it in any detail one would hope they'd conclude that while it'd be nice to have, and had it survived it might even be worth keeping, there just isn't the justification for the cost.

Expect the campaigners to jump on this endorsement though!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the plus side, no-one has been affected by rail strikes between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth for a very long time...

 

[Bald Rick]

For the leadership? Or for PM in 2020 (or whenever)?

Yes!!

 

[oldman]

Would it be for a UK PM to decide Welsh infrastructure investment priorities?

 

[najaB]

Would it be for a UK PM to decide Welsh infrastructure investment priorities?

Seeing as it would be unlikely to be financed entirely from the devolved government's coffers, I expect central government to have some say.

 

[8H]

He's probably heard of the campaign and jumping on the wagon just to promise something without any thought to the practicability of it.

I think you will find that when it comes to railways that Jeremy Corbyn is one of us, subscribes to magazines and has a long held interest in our subject. So no bandwagon. Wales has a rotten rail service compared to rural Switzerland for example and I imagine you wouldn't label the Swiss "loony left"

 

[Greenback]

Jeremy Corbyn's support for the reopening is more likely to undermine the campaign than help it!

 

[8H]

Jeremy Corbyn's support for the reopening is more likely to undermine the campaign than help it!

I expect you are waiting for Neil Hamilton to stimulate public transport across Wales

 

[Greenback]

Well, I'm expecting Neil Hamilton to stimulate an exodus from Wales...

 

[8H]

Well, I'm expecting Neil Hamilton to stimulate an exodus from Wales...

Fair play!

 

[krus_aragon]

Well, I'm expecting Neil Hamilton to stimulate an exodus from Wales...

Can we start with Neil Hamilton?

 

[Greenback]

That's what I'd be hoping for, but it could be that he's the last person left!

 

[oldman]

Seeing as it would be unlikely to be financed entirely from the devolved government's coffers, I expect central government to have some say.

Corbyn is saying he would put £10bn into Welsh infrastructure, but I don't see it is his job to tell the WAG where to spend it. Imagine if Nicky was told where to spend Barnett money in Scotland.

 

[Greenback]

Corbyn is saying he would put £10bn into Welsh infrastructure, but I don't see it is his job to tell the WAG where to spend it. Imagine if Nicky was told where to spend Barnett money in Scotland.

I agree with you, but I don't suppose there's much harm in Mr Corbyn expressing an opinion - except to the campaign itself of course.

 

[JohnB57]

Wales has a rotten rail service compared to rural Switzerland for example...

In every other way of course, the two are virtually identical.

Seriously, is that the best comparison you can come up with?

 

[Greenback]

The demographics, geography and politics of Switzerland is vastly different to that of the UK. They didn't close loads of lines in the 1960's, for a start, and they regard transport as a public service that is vital to the economic well being of the country.

I'd rather we were more like the Swiss here, but the fact is that we aren't!

 

[JohnB57]

The demographics, geography and politics of Switzerland is vastly different to that of the UK. They didn't close loads of lines in the 1960's, for a start, and they regard transport as a public service that is vital to the economic well being of the country.

I'd rather we were more like the Swiss here, but the fact is that we aren't!

Quite. A country that defines itself through not sticking its nose into other people's business and chooses to invest a significant amount of the wealth that that has created in public services.

There are very few countries in the world who wouldn't like to be more like Switzerland but, sadly, we can't all be like that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With Aberystwyth to South Wales in mind, I note that Lewis Coaches ceased trading on 12th August. Were they involved with service 701 from Aberystwyth to Cardiff?

 

[Phil from Mon]

With Aberystwyth to South Wales in mind, I note that Lewis Coaches ceased trading on 12th August. Were they involved with service 701 from Aberystwyth to Cardiff?

Yes, and that service has so far as I know has not been taken over by anyone else, but the T1 Traws Cambria Aber to Caerfyrddin still runs.

 

[snowball]

The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth plan is rubbished by Ian Walmsley in the current Modern Railways.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth plan is rubbished by Ian Walmsley in the current Modern Railways.

He also suggests that he capacity crunch on the Bolton lines would be solved by swapping a Pacer for a 150/2 from West Wales.....