Carlisle to Edinburgh (Haymarket)

[BlueFox]

These are walk up fares available from Carlisle to Haymarket:

Off peak day return - £26.10
Off peak return - £51.40
Anytime return - £96.90

I was playing around with the online ticket sites to see if there's anywhere valid via Haymarket that has a cheaper fare, and I was offered Carlisle to Cumbernauld via Haymarket for the following prices:
Off peak return - £23.20 (saving £28.20)
Anytime return - £51.50 (saving £45.40)


Can someone confirm that Carlisle to Cumbernauld is really valid via Haymarket?
And if it is, presumably there's no problem ending a journey short at Haymarket with the above ticket types?


I looked on Trainscanbecheaper and it seems to think it's not a valid route - "The fares check has failed".

 

[4SRKT]

These are walk up fares available from Carlisle to Haymarket:

Off peak day return - £26.10
Off peak return - £51.40
Anytime return - £96.90

I was playing around with the online ticket sites to see if there's anywhere valid via Haymarket that has a cheaper fare, and I was offered Carlisle to Cumbernauld via Haymarket for the following prices:
Off peak return - £23.20 (saving £28.20)
Anytime return - £51.50 (saving £45.40)


Can someone confirm that Carlisle to Cumbernauld is really valid via Haymarket?
And if it is, presumably there's no problem ending a journey short at Haymarket with the above ticket types?


I looked on Trainscanbecheaper and it seems to think it's not a valid route - "The fares check has failed".

Carlisle to Shotts has the same fares and is definitely valid via Haymarket. I've done it several times. It's been a long time since I bought a ticket to Edinbugh in fact; Shotts every time with the option to come back via Glasgow if you like.

 

[cuccir]

Carlisle - Cumbernauld via Haymarket has no through trains and is clearly not the shortest route. So we turn to the routeing guide.

Carlisle is a routeing point.

Cumbernauld is associated with three routeing points: Glasgow, Falkirk and Motherwell. Falkirk fails the fares test, but the other two pass.

Carlsile - Glasgow is valid on FK and MM
Carlisle - Motherwell is valid on FK

Ediburgh is on neither of these maps, and doesn't form part of the shortest route from Cumbernauld to either Glasgow or Motherwell. I can't find any relevant easements and, therefore, it isn't valid.

However, we can see that if Falkirk were a valid routing point, the ticket would be valid on map FC, that would allow travel via Haymarket.

There is a slightly different routeing guide used for journey planners, for coding reasons I believe. We can therefore speculate that, in this instance, journey planners such as National Rail Enquiries and East Coast Trains, both of whom offer routes via Haymarket on one ticket, are either: 1. Using a version of the routeing guide which permits this route or 2. Incorrectly implementing the fares test in this instance.

Either way, you should be OK to travel on this route, but I would book tickets if possible and print off an itinerary from the routeing guide. The code of the off-peak return ticket is 2R, and therefore break of journey is allowed.

Note that if this is because of an incorrect fares-test implementation, your using this ticket, or indeed the presence of this thread, may highlight the inconsistency and see this routing removed.

--
Note: "print off an itinerary from the routeing guide" should read "print off an itinerary from the journey planner"

 

[maniacmartin]

The booking engines use a different secret Routeing Guide that has more maps, and changes to some of the maps in the public PDF. It also does the fares comparison with NFM64 (1996 fares?), so that the appropriate routeing points do not change as different fares go up at different rates.

If you want to travel on an NRE itinerary, then print it off and show it to any staff who may challenge you.

 

[4SRKT]

Carlisle - Cumbernauld via Haymarket has no through trains and is clearly not the shortest route. So we turn to the routeing guide.

Carlisle is a routeing point.

Cumbernauld is associated with three routeing points: Glasgow, Falkirk and Motherwell. Falkirk fails the fares test, but the other two pass.

Carlsile - Glasgow is valid on FK and MM
Carlisle - Motherwell is valid on FK

Ediburgh is on neither of these maps, and doesn't form part of the shortest route from Cumbernauld to either Glasgow or Motherwell. I can't find any relevant easements and, therefore, it isn't valid.

However, we can see that if Falkirk were a valid routing point, the ticket would be valid on map FC, that would allow travel via Haymarket.

There is a slightly different routeing guide used for journey planners, for coding reasons I believe. We can therefore speculate that, in this instance, journey planners such as National Rail Enquiries and East Coast Trains, both of whom offer routes via Haymarket on one ticket, are either: 1. Using a version of the routeing guide which permits this route or 2. Incorrectly implementing the fares test in this instance.

Either way, you should be OK to travel on this route, but I would book tickets if possible and print off an itinerary from the routeing guide. The code of the off-peak return ticket is 2R, and therefore break of journey is allowed.

Note that if this is because of an incorrect fares-test implementation, your using this ticket, or indeed the presence of this thread, may highlight the inconsistency and see this routing removed.

Blimey.

Shotts is simpler than this, shows up in NRE as a valid route via Glasgow or Haymarket (is probably although I'm not certain within the 3 mile rule), and is from my experience completely hassle free. I take it the OP doesn't actually want to go to Cumbernauld (who does?), and just wants to get a ticket to a station in central Edinburgh that doesn't involve selling all his possessions first.

 

[cuccir]

Shotts is simpler though, and shows up in NRE as a valid route via Glasgow or Haymarket. I take it the OP doesn't actually want to go to Cumbernauld (who does?), and just want to get a ticket to a station in central Edinburgh that doesn't involve selling all his possessions first.

Oh completely agree - I'd started writing and checking my post before you had posted I think. It is a significantly better option to purchase the ticket to Shotts.

 

[4SRKT]

Oh completely agree - I'd started writing and checking my post before you had posted I think. It is a significantly better option to purchase the ticket to Shotts.

It's a belter. My move from West Yorkshire to central Scotland is a via Appleby to Shotts SOR. A total winner at £52.50.

 

[BlueFox]

Thanks for the replies.

Next time I go to Edinburgh I'll get a ticket to Shotts instead.

 

[reb0118]

I went to Shotts ~ once!

 

[4SRKT]

I've never been to Shotts, but have bought tickets to it a number of times....

 

[Gathursty]

I've recently been to Shotts in the still of the night and think me and the girlfriend will be going there soon now.

 

[Cheds]

And the same would apply to Waverley as to hay market because of grouping, yes? Thanks.