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Cardiff to Manchester/Liverpool

Blahaj_92

New Member
Joined
12 Aug 2026
Messages
4
Location
Manchester
Hi - looking for advice for a friend who is travelling from Cardiff to the north west this weekend

They would be looking to travel from Cardiff to Manchester on Friday, and then from Liverpool back to Cardiff on Sunday on an off peak or anytime return ticket.

I’ve had a look at the routeing guide maps but am a little confused - would a Cardiff - Liverpool return cover both journeys, and if so, which routes are valid?

Thanks!
 
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jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
10,158
Location
Wilmslow
CB+BM+NO and CB+BM+NR show valid routes Cardiff to Liverpool via Manchester. Maps showing routes at https://rgpp.iblocks.co.uk/maps via Hereford, Worcester & Birmingham. Also WB+BM+NO and WB+BM+NR via Bristol or Chepstow to Birmingham and then via Manchester. Both routes Manchester-Liverpool are covered (Chat Moss or Warrington Central).

An off-peak return won't be valid outbound from Manchester to Liverpool after Friday, but your post implies the friend won't be using the train for this leg anyway.
 
Last edited:

Blahaj_92

New Member
Joined
12 Aug 2026
Messages
4
Location
Manchester
CB+BM+NO and CB+BM+NR show valid routes Cardiff to Liverpool via Manchester. Maps showing routes at https://rgpp.iblocks.co.uk/maps via Hereford, Worcester & Birmingham. Also WB+BM+NO and WB+BM+NR via Bristol or Chepstow to Birmingham and then via Manchester. Both routes Manchester-Liverpool are covered (Chat Moss or Warrington Central).

An off-peak return won't be valid outbound from Manchester to Liverpool after Friday, but your post implies the friend won't be using the train for this leg anyway.
Great, very helpful thanks. Yes they wouldn’t be travelling by train from Manchester to Liverpool outbound so that works.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
10,158
Location
Wilmslow
There isn't a valid route Cardiff-Crewe-Manchester-Livepool that I can see, although I'm not sure anyone on the train would know this.
The valid routes Cardiff-Liverpool are shown on maps
  • AW+CH
  • AW+CV
  • AW+JO+CV
  • CB+BM+NO
  • CB+BM+NR
  • CB+BV
  • CB+ME
  • WB+BM+NO
  • WB+BM+NR
  • WB+BV
  • WB+ME
if you want to check for yourself.
Obviously they can come back via Crewe and to Cardiff.
 

Coleridge

Member
Joined
14 Mar 2023
Messages
213
Location
Penarth
The forum's ticketing site will sell an off-peak return with an itinerary that goes via Manchester on the outward leg (Cardiff-Birmingham-Manchester-Liverpool) and direct (Liverpool-Crewe-Cardiff) on the return.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
16,793
Location
UK
There isn't a valid route Cardiff-Crewe-Manchester-Livepool that I can see, although I'm not sure anyone on the train would know this.
The valid routes Cardiff-Liverpool are shown on maps
  • AW+CH
  • AW+CV
  • AW+JO+CV
  • CB+BM+NO
  • CB+BM+NR
  • CB+BV
  • CB+ME
  • WB+BM+NO
  • WB+BM+NR
  • WB+BV
  • WB+ME
if you want to check for yourself.
Obviously they can come back via Crewe and to Cardiff.
To spell that out in layman's terms, there are valid routes from Cardiff to Liverpool via Crewe, if you go via Hereford & Shrewsbury and continue beyond Crewe via Chester or Runcorn.

There are also valid routes from Cardiff to Liverpool via Crewe if you go via Birmingham, and these allow you to continue beyond Crewe via Manchester.

What isn't valid, on paper, is going via Hereford, Shrewsbury, Crewe & Manchester. But in practical terms it is almost impossible to enforce this because many TfW services to Manchester have a change of guard at Crewe anyway.

Even if you had the same guard before & after Crewe, and they were to notice that you stayed on after Crewe, I can't imagine there's even a single one out there that would have all of the Routeing Guide maps memorised and would therefore know it's not permitted to mix the two routes.

The public Routeing Guide nowadays only really exists to illustrate what journey planners will offer; on the ground, the "any reasonable route" rule still applies just as much as it did in BR days. And I don't think taking the Marches train via Manchester is such an unreasonable detour that it's likely to be challenged by a guard.

I f anyone challenges it, I'd say it's more likely to be the poorly trained gateline staff you get at places like Manchester Piccadilly, who might wrongly think the ticket is never valid via Manchester (because London-Liverpool isn't valid via Manchester and vice versa), when in fact it is.
 

plugwash

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2015
Messages
1,996
Is there no destination mid way that would be obviously valid?
While that is a useful approach in many cases, I don't think it works in the case of Manchester/Liverpool.

1. There are two roughtly-equal in time/distance but largely disjoint routes between manchester and liverpool. The "chat moss" route via earlstwon and the "clc" route via warrnington central. This means that splitting the joruney between liverpool and manchester restricts your journey options (though this is not a problm
2. For travel from Crewe to Earlestown, Warrington or Wigan, going directly up the WCML is a more obvious route than either liverpool or Manchester. So if you pick a place between manchester and Warrington/Earlestown/Wigan than Manchester and Warrington/Earlestown/Wigan will seem reasonable but Liverpool much less so, and if you pick a place between Warrington/Earlestown/Wigan and Liverpool then Liverpool and Warrington/Earlestown/Wigan will seem reasonable but Manchester much less so.
 

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