Cardiff to Brighton Advance

[MrJeeves]

My experience is all my paper Advance/Senior tickets will be rejected at East Croydon as that is the way Southern have programmed the gates

But why not a more logical error code?

I've just explained this in another thread:

Tickets retained by barriers before destination

Three times now, I have seen Cardiff Bay - Cardiff Central and Cathays - Cardiff Central tickets be sucked into the barriers at Queen Street, when I’ve gone to the Spar so break of journey (or when I can’t be bothered waiting for the next train and walk the rest) This is surely unacceptable? My...

www.railforums.co.uk

There's a distinct difference between programmed to reject and simply not programmed.

In this case (as per the other post regarding East Croydon a few minutes ago), 105 is invalid ticket type which means that advance tickets simply aren't configured in the gateline database. They're not set to reject, the gateline just doesn't know what to do with them.

You'd be expecting to see 135, which is "special rules".

 

[paul1609]

It's nothing to do with who the fare setter is. The problem is the rollout of Advance fares on a wider basis.

Advance fares historically were only available on 'inter-city' long distance type services. They come with a mandatory reservation but no reservation was issued for the 'connecting local train' at either end of a journey because these 'connecting local trains' did not offer seat reservations or Advance fares.

We now have a situation where, in many cases, the operators of the 'connecting local trains' offer their own Advance fares. This means these trains must have seat reservations set up to allow an Advance ticket to be sold. The seat reservations aren't normally a proper seat reservation, simply a counted place which allows an Advance ticket to be sold that is linked to a specific train. This is fine for a journey wholly on the 'connecting local train'.

The unintended consequence comes when a longer journey is being made using Advance tickets because the system will book mandatory seat reservations on all trains where seat reservations are available. If a mandatory seat reservation is included on your itinerary then officially you must travel on those specific trains. In your particular case some of the 'connecting local trains' are set up for Advance fares, some aren't.

The whole situation is unsatisfactory in my view but while operators of local connecting trains (many of which do actually operatoe over long distances) offer Advance tickets I really can't see a way round it.

Surely this is the real problem, Thameslink are increasingly a regional operator as London commuting declines. A Chichester to Peterborough journey is equivalent to Liverpool to Darlington on tpe in distance why can the north have cheap advance fares but not the south?

 

[Hadders]

Surely this is the real problem, Thameslink are increasingly a regional operator as London commuting declines. A Chichester to Peterborough journey is equivalent to Liverpool to Darlington on tpe in distance why can the north have cheap advance fares but not the south?

My view is that a fares structure of Anytime/Off Peak/Super Off Peak is a better way than a handful of supposedly ‘cheap’ Advance fares.

 

[Haywain]

My view is that a fares structure of Anytime/Off Peak/Super Off Peak is a better way than a handful of supposedly ‘cheap’ Advance fares.

I might be inclined to agree if the singles were priced at half the price of the returns, or thereabouts, but as things stand a one way journey can look rather expensive without Advance tickets being available.

 

[yorkie]

The two fast Brighton Services from Victoria are operated by (the) Gatwick Express (brand).

All trains branded Gatwick Express, Thameslink or Southern are operated by GTR; GTR is the train operator and the other names are merely brand names.

Likewise as an ordinary passenger how would I find out which Thameslink trains have counted place reservations? That is work through again all of the points in the preceding paragraph

You are overthinking this; most people book the itinerary they want, and then go with it.

If you are not offered the desired itinerary automatically, there is the opton to specify additional via points and/or avoid points and/or additional interchange time.

And as a supplementary, the train in question was cancelled! What are my options? Find another Thameslink train that does not have counted place reservations? That is work through once more all of the points in the preceding paragraphs

If the train is cancelled you may take the next appropriate service; this has nothing to do with whether or not trains are reserveable. If you are ever in doubt what your options are, please create a new thread and state the ticket(s) held, the original planned itinerary along with any other relevant information (e.g. can you depart earlier, if you've not yet set off).

The forum's rail ticket site did alert me by email re the cancellation. And helpfully told me to take the next service matching your ticket route and operator restrictions. Although I had not grasped that the restrictions meant that I had to find the next Thameslink train that did not have counted place reservations?

That's not the case.

The forum's rail site did flag up that I might not make the connection into my booked GWR service from Paddington to Carmarthen. GWR only serve Carmarthen every two hours, and it was a GWR Advance, so probably not valid on Transport for Wales Trains

If the delay to your journey by awaiting the next GWR service would be over an hour and this could be minimised by taking TfW, then your ticket should be accepted; I would ask GWR/TfW this, and if they refuse, you can either accept the delay and a huge Delay Repay payout, or alternatively you can buy a new ticket on TfW if they won't accept the original, and you can bill this to GWR.

Actually the forum's rail ticket site did not grasp that I had deliberately specified extended connection times when I made by booking, to include 30 minutes or more "performance and pathing allowances" in my own journey. So loads of spare time. And indeed these allowances were set so I could stock up in Marks and Sparks at Paddington station with enough to sustain me to Carmarthen. However I did not set up my "performance and pathing allowances" to allow for me finding another Thameslink train that did not have counted place reservations

If you think the forum's site hasn't acted correctly, please provide all the relevant details incuding the search parameters, and let us know what itinerary you were offered and how you felt this was deficient. It would be best if this was done in a separate thread.

 

[paul1609]

All trains branded Gatwick Express, Thameslink or Southern are operated by GTR; GTR is the train operator and the other names are merely brand names.

Indeed but you do have to ask if GTR has been merged in to one TOC to save costs why the same hasn't been done for the operator of last resort companies, LNER, Northern and TPE all of which are much smaller companies in all respects.

 

[Haywain]

Indeed but you do have to ask if GTR has been merged in to one TOC to save costs why the same hasn't been done for the operator of last resort companies, LNER, Northern and TPE all of which are much smaller companies in all respects.

Perhaps because someone in DfT realises that things aren't always as simple as they might seem.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I do feel that this thread has swerved very much off track and been taken over, so I’ll just try and head back in the right direction.

Please see attached ticket. The Advance part of the ticket, as I expected, was for the 1618 Cardiff to London service, and I was expecting the Thameslink service to just be ‘via Thameslink only’. The reason why I wanted to know if the ticket was via Victoria is because at peak time I find it considerably easier to go from Victoria, as services start from there and also there are tables throughout (unless you trek right to the very rear first class section on Thameslink which is permanently declassified but then that involves a very long walk when arriving at Brighton!). Southern/GX also stop less frequently than Thameslink.

If truth be told, I didn’t think to search for Advances via Victoria; in all honesty I don’t even know if it would have come up as an option however I did Tweet GX who seemed to be certain that the ticket was valid via Victoria as the ticket is a through ticket and routed ‘+ connections’ meaning it’s valid on any trains to complete the journey down to Brighton. Whether that is true or not I don’t know, however I will bear that in mind for next time!

 

[JonathanH]

That ticket requires you to take the Thameslink train shown. You can't go via Victoria. A journey via Victoria should have been specified at the time of booking.

It is not valid on 'any train' to Brighton because you have a reservation for the 1854 train from Farringdon. You must use the 'specified trains', and then any relevant connections in between - for example you can use any connections between Paddington and Farringdon.

It would be quite difficult to argue that a 'mandatory reservation' allows a passenger to take a different train. Even the fact that it is 'specified trains and connections' rather than 'GWR and connections' appears to have clarified that.

 

[Hadders]

The ticket is very clear to me. You must take the trains specified on the reservation coupon. It is not valid via Victoria.