Cardiff Bus/Coach Station

[Caaardiff]

Have you seen the stadium emptying out after a match or concert?
People go whichever way they want, which now includes through the roads of the bus station.
Theres a big influx of taxis and people on foot at the south end of St Mary's St. It would cause gridlock. It would also mean long diversions for buses coming from the north and West of Cardiff to get through the city centre via Queen St end of town or Penarth Rd, causing even more gridlock.

Safety over convenience.

 

[markymark2000]

There were meetings with officers from other councils that have bus services to Cardiff where it was literally said that the bus station could be served during events. So I really want to know who and with what reason is ow claiming it isn’t possible.

It's TFW. TFW makes stuff up as they go along so this lark really surprises no one.

It's also worth noting that a number of buses in the bus station still amend how they operate on Fri/Sat nights because of continuous blocking of Penarth Road exit by Cardiffs highly skilled and qualified, definitely professional, taxi drivers. Cardiff Bus 29 for example runs up Westgate Street and past the castle rather than the normal route past John Lewis. 44/45/49/50/52/57/58 all run into the city via Queen Street Station rather than doing the loop (If Penarth Road exit was ok to be used, they could easily do the normal city loop and use the bus station as a cut through from Westgate Street to Penarth Road). Newport Bus 30 similarly doesn't use the bus station at night because of issues at Penarth Road.

TFW doesn't seem to want to say a word on it because god forbid they get proven to be incompetent on something.

Theres a big influx of taxis and people on foot at the south end of St Mary's St. It would cause gridlock. It would also mean long diversions for buses coming from the north and West of Cardiff to get through the city centre via Queen St end of town or Penarth Rd, causing even more gridlock.

Safety over convenience.

Why should Cardiffs lawless taxi drivers get priority over buses? Have you seen the way them lot drive and where they think it's safe to pick up and drop off (I've seen far too many taxis on Fri/Say nights literally picking up/dropping off in the middle of the St Marys Street/Penarth Road junction because they can't be bothered waiting to join the normal taxi queue or get to a safe place to drop off). Buses and public transport should ALWAYS have priority over taxi drivers, and the fact that Cardiff is quite the opposite, is worthy of a full investigation of councillors and council staff because something isn't right! If you are so worried about safety, these taxi drivers should be the first group of people to be shoved out of the city (make the taxi pick up point Cardiff City Stadium or something so we don't have to put up with these numpties who seemed to learn how to drive from playing mario kart).

 

[Christian Schm]

so taxis at the bottom of st. mary’s street should have priority of bus passengers? that disregard to bus passengers is what annoys me. and the number of buses coming out of the bus station alone would certainly not cause gridlock.

people walk through the bus station because there’s no traffic. you could easily close it of at the Wood St entrance to buses and pedestrians

Have you seen the stadium emptying out after a match or concert?
People go whichever way they want, which now includes through the roads of the bus station.
Theres a big influx of taxis and people on foot at the south end of St Mary's St. It would cause gridlock. It would also mean long diversions for buses coming from the north and West of Cardiff to get through the city centre via Queen St end of town or Penarth Rd, causing even more gridlock.

Safety over convenience.

so taxis at the bottom of st. mary’s street should have priority of bus passengers? that disregard to bus passengers is what annoys me. and the number of buses coming out of the bus station alone would certainly not cause gridlock.

people walk through the bus station because there’s no traffic. you could easily close it of at the Wood St entrance to buses and pedestrians

and buses are a very safe mode of transport. there’s a real safety disbenefit making more unreliable and less used

 

[SW Buses]

so taxis at the bottom of st. mary’s street should have priority of bus passengers? that disregard to bus passengers is what annoys me. and the number of buses coming out of the bus station alone would certainly not cause gridlock.

people walk through the bus station because there’s no traffic. you could easily close it of at the Wood St entrance to buses and pedestrians

so taxis at the bottom of st. mary’s street should have priority of bus passengers? that disregard to bus passengers is what annoys me. and the number of buses coming out of the bus station alone would certainly not cause gridlock.

people walk through the bus station because there’s no traffic. you could easily close it of at the Wood St entrance to buses and pedestrians

and buses are a very safe mode of transport. there’s a real safety disbenefit making more unreliable and less used

Taxis are a nightmare in Cardiff and have been for the last 20 years. Try being in Westgate Street circa 2200 on a Friday and Saturday night. The southbound queue is in the bus stops and bus lane and can easily see around 30 taxis just parked up, engines off. The southbound buses have to travel some distance on the wrong side of the road to pass. Council and TfW are just not interested. Nor are the Police.

The bus station could never operate on event days. The suggestion was ruled out by bus operators early on, despite the messaging by others to the contrary.

 

[Caaardiff]

It's TFW. TFW makes stuff up as they go along so this lark really surprises no one.

It's also worth noting that a number of buses in the bus station still amend how they operate on Fri/Sat nights because of continuous blocking of Penarth Road exit by Cardiffs highly skilled and qualified, definitely professional, taxi drivers. Cardiff Bus 29 for example runs up Westgate Street and past the castle rather than the normal route past John Lewis. 44/45/49/50/52/57/58 all run into the city via Queen Street Station rather than doing the loop (If Penarth Road exit was ok to be used, they could easily do the normal city loop and use the bus station as a cut through from Westgate Street to Penarth Road). Newport Bus 30 similarly doesn't use the bus station at night because of issues at Penarth Road.

TFW doesn't seem to want to say a word on it because god forbid they get proven to be incompetent on something.


Why should Cardiffs lawless taxi drivers get priority over buses? Have you seen the way them lot drive and where they think it's safe to pick up and drop off (I've seen far too many taxis on Fri/Say nights literally picking up/dropping off in the middle of the St Marys Street/Penarth Road junction because they can't be bothered waiting to join the normal taxi queue or get to a safe place to drop off). Buses and public transport should ALWAYS have priority over taxi drivers, and the fact that Cardiff is quite the opposite, is worthy of a full investigation of councillors and council staff because something isn't right! If you are so worried about safety, these taxi drivers should be the first group of people to be shoved out of the city (make the taxi pick up point Cardiff City Stadium or something so we don't have to put up with these numpties who seemed to learn how to drive from playing mario kart).

Absolutely agree. But that wasn't my point. Taxis are a part of any city and many people will use them to get into and out of the city, especially if public transport isn't an option for them.
The idea of a stadium smack bang in the centre of a city is great in many aspects, but also brings its own issues.

The southbound buses have to travel some distance on the wrong side of the road to pass. Council and TfW are just not interested. Nor are the Police.

What has taxis being parked on a public road got to do with with TFW? Its council land and a council problem.

so taxis at the bottom of st. mary’s street should have priority of bus passengers? that disregard to bus passengers is what annoys me.

I didn't say that. Taxis are a big part of the traffic through the city centre, they have to go somewhere and there's always going to be huge taxi usage on an event day.

Buses are still available, just from safer, if not a little bit inconvenient locations. Not really sure what the big issue is. You seem to be campaigning for convenience over people's safety.

Name another city with a huge stadium is located right in the city centre? Cardiff is unique in that aspect and its better these things are put in place to mitigate accidents.

 

[SW Buses]

Absolutely agree. But that wasn't my point. Taxis are a part of any city and many people will use them to get into and out of the city, especially if public transport isn't an option for them.
The idea of a stadium smack bang in the centre of a city is great in many aspects, but also brings its own issues.



What has taxis being parked on a public road got to do with with TFW? Its council land and a council problem.



I didn't say that. Taxis are a big part of the traffic through the city centre, they have to go somewhere and there's always going to be huge taxi usage on an event day.

Buses are still available, just from safer, if not a little bit inconvenient locations. Not really sure what the big issue is. You seem to be campaigning for convenience over people's safety.

Name another city with a huge stadium is located right in the city centre? Cardiff is unique in that aspect and its better these things are put in place to mitigate accidents.

TfW have made it their business, aligning to the rank access issues raised by the trade at the front and rear of Cardiff Central.

 

[Caaardiff]

TfW have made it their business, aligning to the rank access issues raised by the trade at the front and rear of Cardiff Central.

It's not just the taxi rank. If anything they are slightly more organised. It's the private hire, Ubers, Minibuses, even coaches at times that are less organised and cause congestions.

 

[markymark2000]

Absolutely agree. But that wasn't my point. Taxis are a part of any city and many people will use them to get into and out of the city, especially if public transport isn't an option for them.

But moving buses further away and to, as you admit, less convenient places, you are literally pushing people into taxis because people don't want to walk to the other bus stops.

As you should know, Taxis rule the roost in Cardiff and Cardiff Council won't do anything which could risk the livelihoods of their beloved wacky rackers taxi drivers. Cardiff Taxi drivers wouldn't pass a basic theory test on the road, let alone a full driving test, but Cardiff Council throw out licences like they are sweets. Then create makeshift taxi ranks in places where they know damn well will cause issues for public transport, and thus force people into taxis. It's a systemic issue within Cardiff Council. If you got rid of the silly council staff, and numpty councillors, and only employed people who could pass an IQ test to a sufficient level, you'd quickly find that this nonsense would stop. Buses would be in the bus station, taxis would be ousted to another part of the city.

Taxis are a big part of the traffic through the city centre, they have to go somewhere and there's always going to be huge taxi usage on an event day.

Maybe if the council didn't throw out licences like sweeties there wouldn't be taxis everywhere. Maybe if the council didn't give so much priority to taxis, they wouldn't be everywhere. Maybe if the council got off their behinds and started fining all of the taxis which sit in bus stops most of the day to deliberately block buses, maybe there would be so many taxis.
Maybe if the council didn't set up makeshift taxi ranks at the end of St Marys Street, taxis wouldn't use that rank, and consequently block the whole of Penarth Road. Maybe if the council used a braincell and put up double yellow lines on the St Marys Street junction, as well as a big yellow box, and actively enforced that, then maybe none of this would be an issue.

It's man made issues, by incompetent people in the council who are hell bent on facilitating taxi movements over bus users. That is the crux of the problem. Sod all to do with safety. Cardiff Councils 'taxis are king' policies are rife throughout the day, not just event days.


Just to give other readers an idea of the issues in the area, here is a video showing the nonsense that goes on on Fri/Sat nights (and similarly on event days). This is quite clearly a man made issue because of barriers which get put up by the council, to serve a makeshift taxi rank that the council installs. https://x.com/SmithysTP/status/1850313600864338410

 

[Caaardiff]

As you should know, Taxis rule the roost in Cardiff and Cardiff Council won't do anything which could risk the livelihoods of their beloved wacky rackers taxi drivers.

Very true but don't forget Cardiff Bus is council owned. Why would the council allow the bus station to be closed just to screw themselves over?

The reality is, A stadium kicking out 60-70k people in one go with the majority heading south towards the train station and St Mary's street should not have buses driving through the crowds. The whole process of road closures would include councils, transport operators and police, not some dart board decisions made by a very small number of people.
Trying to control that many people in such a short period of time is no easy task, and i'll say it again, safety over convenience.

Don't forget that the train station, which probably see's about 20-30k people returning after an event has a queuing system outside, with trains carrying 200-1000 people in one go. If the bus station is opened, how will the bus station accommodate hundreds of people in a relatively small space looking to catch buses? Where will people queue to catch buses?
At least with bus pick up points spread further around the city centre you won't have as bad overcrowding issues for people wanting to get buses.
Also, if the bus station is opened in the South end of St Marys st only, those buses needing to go North and West will then have to navigate Penarth Road traffic or Bute St and Churchill way, with various bottleneck junctions, which will completely throw the timetable out and delay more people down the line.

 

[markymark2000]

Why would the council allow the bus station to be closed just to screw themselves over?

Because they make a lot more money out of taxi licencing than they make out of the bus station.

The reality is, A stadium kicking out 60-70k people in one go with the majority heading south towards the train station and St Mary's street should not have buses driving through the crowds.

But it's ok for taxis to be driving through them same crowds? Buses already use the St Marys Street junction to access stops on Canal Street/Hayes Bridge Road. What difference is another 50 metres from that junction, into the bus station?

Also, if the bus station is opened in the South end of St Marys st only, those buses needing to go North and West will then have to navigate Penarth Road traffic or Bute St and Churchill way, with various bottleneck junctions, which will completely throw the timetable out and delay more people down the line.

I think we all appreciate that some buses would still use alternative stops where the route through the city is completely blocked (such as those routes which pass the Castle). However for routes from the east and south, they could still use the bus station. You could also argue that by spreading out some buses more by using the bus station, it would ease any pressures on Fitzhamon Embankment and Tudor Street stops and save them stops for routes which have no other choice (such as Cathedral Road and Cowbridge Road routes).

Opening it and letting bus operators form a better plan for event days, is significantly better than the current situation.

So much for these big bold aims of improving integrated transport when we can't even have a functioning bus station for 120 odd days per year (104 days for Friday/Saturdays, plus event days). You might as well have built the bus station at the sports village for all the use it is, if it can't be actually useful for so many days of the year!

 

[SW Buses]

Because they make a lot more money out of taxi licencing than they make out of the bus station.


But it's ok for taxis to be driving through them same crowds? Buses already use the St Marys Street junction to access stops on Canal Street/Hayes Bridge Road. What difference is another 50 metres from that junction, into the bus station?


I think we all appreciate that some buses would still use alternative stops where the route through the city is completely blocked (such as those routes which pass the Castle). However for routes from the east and south, they could still use the bus station. You could also argue that by spreading out some buses more by using the bus station, it would ease any pressures on Fitzhamon Embankment and Tudor Street stops and save them stops for routes which have no other choice (such as Cathedral Road and Cowbridge Road routes).

Opening it and letting bus operators form a better plan for event days, is significantly better than the current situation.

So much for these big bold aims of improving integrated transport when we can't even have a functioning bus station for 120 odd days per year (104 days for Friday/Saturdays, plus event days). You might as well have built the bus station at the sports village for all the use it is, if it can't be actually useful for so many days of the year!

The challenge would be how would services from the west and east get there - north ruled out as they would have sued Castle Street. The river to the west means a long diversion and anyone that’s been in Cardiff in most days, never mind an event, will know the delays along Bute Terrace……

Cardiff Council generate no revenue from the Bus Interchange, that is TfW through departure changes. Interestingly departure charges re not levered at their other interchange at Porth.

 

[markymark2000]

The challenge would be how would services from the west and east get there - north ruled out as they would have sued Castle Street. The river to the west means a long diversion and anyone that’s been in Cardiff in most days, never mind an event, will know the delays along Bute Terrace……

Adventure C1 and Cardiff 6, 7, 8, and 305 already get to St Mary Street junction as they run off Canal Street/Custom House Street, so for these it would be easy to move those into the bus station as per normal.
First 304 could easily serve it too as currently that runs off Fitzhamon Embankment then faffs around to get to Lloyd George Ave.
If you moved the 1/1A, 2/2A & 9 in there too on event days, that would mean you could fully close Canal Street and facilitate more pedestrian space there, and likely save any delays battling with John Lewis Car Park.
That's 9 routes right there, without looking at diverting anything really off route or adding any more buses along Bute Terrace. And it's increased pedestrian space or given space for more taxis on Canal Street.

If you were to look at moving services, the viable options would likely be the 92/93/94 routes from the west. For buses from the east, there is only the 28, 29 and 30 which serve the bus station. The rest use roadside stops and none of their normal stops would be accessible without finding a suitable place to turn around and diverting around the world (or going to the bus station and spinning around in there). The 28, 29 and 30 would depend fully on Bute Terrace, but it opens up options. And let's be honest, Bute Terrace is often congested anyway and buses plod up and down so it shouldn't make much difference compared to normal.

 

[Caaardiff]

But it's ok for taxis to be driving through them same crowds? Buses already use the St Marys Street junction to access stops on Canal Street/Hayes Bridge Road. What difference is another 50 metres from that junction, into the bus station?

That road that leads to the taxi rank from Central Square is the main route under the Penarth Road Bridge to the back of the station for queueing of Valleys services. So that 50m does make a difference as that small bit between central square and the great western pub is busy route. The taxi rank at the station is also closed.

Can i suggest maybe going to see pre and post event and view all of this for yourself?

So much for these big bold aims of improving integrated transport when we can't even have a functioning bus station for 120 odd days per year (104 days for Friday/Saturdays, plus event days).

That's a stretch of the truth.
104 days a year Friday and Saturday from 9pm. When footfall is much lower.

 

[markymark2000]

That road that leads to the taxi rank from Central Square is the main route under the Penarth Road Bridge to the back of the station for queueing of Valleys services. So that 50m does make a difference as that small bit between central square and the great western pub is busy route. The taxi rank at the station is also closed.

That queue at the back of Central Station is not busy for 8 hours of the day, which is was how long the bus station was closed for, for the Wales v South Africa game. This change would mean before and during an event, the bus station would be largely fine for the routes mentioned. After events, for day events, people are a bit more spread out through the evening getting home as some people go into the city after, so the number of buses should be ok. For the night events the crowds will of course be larger, but there are fewer buses to contend with.

Can i suggest maybe going to see pre and post event and view all of this for yourself?

I have. And I've worked near the station through such events. And I think it'd be doable if there was a will to do it, and if taxis were shoved elsewhere.

That's a stretch of the truth.
104 days a year Friday and Saturday from 9pm. When footfall is much lower.

It's still 104 days where the bus station is partially not usable because of pro taxi, anti bus nonsense which is going on in the council.

 

[Christian Schm]

I didn't say that.

My apologies

Buses are still available, just from safer, if not a little bit inconvenient locations. Not really sure what the big issue is. You seem to be campaigning for convenience over people's safety.

I just don't think the safety argument stands. I can't see it being safer for those people that still use buses for walk around the city centre searching for their alternative stop, and I can't see any issue with buses exiting the bus station towards Penarth Road, Custom House Street, and the southern end of St Mary Street south iof the CHS junction.

(And for taxis too I feel there are decent alternatives to Saunders Rd & St Mary Street too)

Name another city with a huge stadium is located right in the city centre? Cardiff is unique in that aspect and its better these things are put in place to mitigate accidents.

The nearest point from the stadium where buses would come onto public street is about 400m distance. In Hamburg Feldstraße is about 200m from St. Pauli's stadium, and has buses before, during & after the game. Walton Rd, with all its buses (and traffic) is 250m from Goodison. The trams are under 300m from Weserstadion in Bremen

 

[Dwarfer1979]

The nearest point from the stadium where buses would come onto public street is about 400m distance. In Hamburg Feldstraße is about 200m from St. Pauli's stadium, and has buses before, during & after the game. Walton Rd, with all its buses (and traffic) is 250m from Goodison. The trams are under 300m from Weserstadion in Bremen

The largest of those you list has a capacity over 30,000 lower than the Principality (74500 for the Principality vs 42100 for the Weserstadion, 39500 for Goodison before it was repurposed & 30000 for St Pauli) plus the Principality is a national stadium not a club stadium so they aren't comparable in demand nor crowd movement. A club stadium has a much larger proportion of local traffic which disperses in a more even manner into the local area, a national stadium has a lower proportion of local foot traffic and means a higher proportion are heading in a few directions - the train station for long distance travel (congesting the main pedestrian access for the bus station) or the city centre for further evening entertainment (crossing the main exit and if heading for many of the major hotels to the south of the city centre crossing the other exit)

There probably is a level of being something they have always done, they have been closing the roads in this area for over 20 years for events at the Principality, and there may be a way of avoiding doing this with the slightly different bus station location now compared to the old one in place when the stadium opened but I can see why they don't want to add a risk they don't currently incur like this (if the bus station had been like that first they may not have come to the decision to close it in that manner but having been closing that area for a couple of decades re-opening it now would appear higher risk in an assessment).

Once you decide to close you certainly don't want to be opening and closing repeatedly during the day as it creates confusion and issues for both passengers and driving staff, particularly around matches that are roughly 2-hours which isn't a long enough window to be significant in that sense.

 

[cdfclipper]

On the topic of additions to the interchange, a planning application (Ref: 25/02043/ADV) went in last month for the sandwich chain "Which Wich" to open a branch. If it goes ahead, it'll take part of the middle commercial unit (Unit 2).

Kiwi Bowls also expected to open early this year inside Unit A (at the Wood Street end of the interchange), signage is up now promoting that it is coming soon.

It's also worth noting that a number of buses in the bus station still amend how they operate on Fri/Sat nights because of continuous blocking of Penarth Road exit by Cardiffs highly skilled and qualified, definitely professional, taxi drivers. Cardiff Bus 29 for example runs up Westgate Street and past the castle rather than the normal route past John Lewis.

Found myself on a 28 that leaves the interchange at 11pm on a Fri/Sat night while on my way to visit a friend. The driver mistakenly left the station the normal route instead of via Westgate Street - we were stuck in taxi gridlock on the junction for about 20 minutes! Certainly can see why they divert, but something really needs to be done about the taxis.

 

[Envoy]

Found myself on a 28 that leaves the interchange at 11pm on a Fri/Sat night while on my way to visit a friend. The driver mistakenly left the station the normal route instead of via Westgate Street - we were stuck in taxi gridlock on the junction for about 20 minutes! Certainly can see why they divert, but something really needs to be done about the taxis.

I can't understand why they don’t shift all the taxis to the south side?

 

[markymark2000]

I can't understand why they don’t shift all the taxis to the south side?

As in south side of Central Station or are you referring to somewhere else?

 

[Caaardiff]

I can't understand why they don’t shift all the taxis to the south side?

They'll be further away from the city centre then which won't go down well with the taxi drivers.

 

[Christian Schm]

Wouldn't Mill Lane/Canal Street would be a decent place? A Park St/Havelock St for going west? Just not St. Mary's Street...

 

[markymark2000]

They'll be further away from the city centre then which won't go down well with the taxi drivers.

Wouldn't Mill Lane/Canal Street would be a decent place? A Park St/Havelock St for going west? Just not St. Mary's Street...

I don't think it matters where you put the official taxi ranks, Cardiffs wacky racers professional taxi drivers, will ignore it anyway. They already see every bus stop as a taxi rank and don't give two hoots for any rules of the road. And Cardiff Council and councillors have zero care for improving the situation. That is despite it negatively affecting 2 municipal operators!
Cardiff Council value taxi licencing funds more than they care about public transport users.