Card Fraud

[WestCoast]

Yesterday I got a phone call from the bank saying that there had been some suspicious activity on my debit card account. There were several transactions, made at shops, all made within a short period of time. This included several mobile phone top-ups, that were definitely not mine. Thankfully, the amount wasn't that substantial, but it is extremely worrying to think that someone else has such easy access to your money! The card was cancelled and "investigations" are taking place.

I did some research and there were 2.8 million cases of card fraud in the UK in 2009, which increased 43% from 2007! It's scary stuff.

Now I haven't used the card much recently in a chip-and-pin or cash machine, which is the only way of getting the PIN. The only things I can account for are few groceries at a Tesco Express store and two sets of rail tickets at a TVM. I am very concerned about both of these.

Any thoughts?

 

[Yew]

do TVM's have the security arrangements around them like cashpoints do? at my local morrisons the security guys go around and check them a few times every day

 

[WestCoast]

do TVM's have the security arrangements around them like cashpoints do? at my local morrisons the security guys go around and check them a few times every day

.

I have no idea, but I wouldn't have thought TVMs were seen as quite such a risk. However, I am leaning towards a TVM having skimmed my card. Of course, I can't be certain or prove anything.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

And the McNulty report is calling for fewer staff in ticket offices selling tickets, with the inevitibility of increasing the number of tickets sold at TVMs (or SSTMs, if you prefer that description).

You couldn't make it up!

 

[SS4]

And the McNulty report is calling for fewer staff in ticket offices selling tickets, with the inevitibility of increasing the number of tickets sold at TVMs (or SSTMs, if you prefer that description).

You couldn't make it up!

Despite what the media would like you to think card fraud is still rare. In addition many TVMs accept cash. I disagree with replacing station staff but in this case cause (more TVMs) does not lead to action (card fraud)

Just goes to show that vigilance is the key

 

[WestCoast]

Despite what the media would like you to think card fraud is still rare.

What's your definition of "rare"? I could name five people I know personally who have had it happen to them. One had their card skimmed in a heath food shop and one at train station(!) in the Netherlands, and none were being careless at all!

 

[SS4]

What's your definition of "rare"? I could name five people I know personally who have had it happen to them. One had their card skimmed in a heath food shop and one at train station(!) in the Netherlands, and none were being careless at all!

I would define rare as around 10% and that your case is a statistical anomaly. I know of nobody who it's happened to

There were an estimated 80 million debit cards in circulation in the U.K in 2009. (Source: http://www.euromonitor.com/, January 2010)

I lifted it from here

That does seem an extraordinarily high amount of debit cards since the population is about 60 million and children don't get debit cards.

Even if we assume only half (40 million) of these are used regularly than the 2.8 million cases you state is 7%. Even then I'm making the absurd assumption that each card is used only once.

 

[WestCoast]

I would define rare as around 10% and that your case is a statistical anomaly. I know of nobody who it's happened to

Statistically, you're probably right. I'm just slightly annoyed as I rarely use my cards in outside cash machines and have never used it in a TVM before now and look what happens!! I just won't trust them from now on and yet the people who pay for every few pence on their card never seem to get scammed.:roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm just slightly annoyed as I rarely use my cards in outside cash machines and have never used it in a TVM before now and look what happens!

I'm not sure it will have been the TVM, if you're just collecting tickets then you won't have had to enter your pin so any scammers might have been able to clone your card but wouldn't have had your pin and without that the card number is fairly useless.

 

[WestCoast]

I'm not sure it will have been the TVM, if you're just collecting tickets then you won't have had to enter your pin so any scammers might have been able to clone your card but wouldn't have had your pin and without that the card number is fairly useless.

No I bought the tickets from a "card-only" TVM. There would have been no way to get the PIN if it was a collection.

Obviously I can't lay any blame - it's just what I strongly suspect.

 

[ainsworth74]

No I bought the tickets from a "card-only" TVM.

Ahh sorry I thought you had collected tickets that you had already bought on line. In that case then the TVM could well be the culprit, especially if you didn't cover the pad whilst entering you pin. I have always done so since seeing this video.

 

[WestCoast]

Ahh sorry I thought you had collected tickets that you had already bought on line. In that case then the TVM could well be the culprit, especially if you didn't cover the pad whilst entering you pin. I have always done so since seeing this video.

No I always cover my pin, but I've heard about some "track pads" you can put underneath the key pad - which is what the criminals are now doing. How on earth can can you detect those I wonder?

 

[GB]

Petrol stations are well known for card scams. I had my details stolen last year and was alerted by the bank after a couple of foreign transactions were taken....thankfully not much.

Turned out it was the loco petrol station as it was raided a few days later, the cash point was walled up and they only accepted cash transactions for a few weeks after while investigations were done.

Theres me thinking Chip & Pin was supposed to be secure, or does the cynic in me think its just to off load the burden of proof to card users?

 

[ainsworth74]

How on earth can can you detect those I wonder?

No idea, I guess just have a poke around the edges of the key pad to try and make sure it seems okay

 

[SS4]

Theres me thinking Chip & Pin was supposed to be secure, or does the cynic in me think its just to off load the burden of proof to card users?

It's certainly possible although I would say it's more to do with a time saving when making transactions and to remove ambiguity (one shop assistant may accept the signature whereas another may not) - 4 numbers is either right or wrong and there is only a 1 in 10,000 chance of guessing your way to success (unless one cheats which we all know happens)

I would certainly state it's easier to forge someone's signature than it is their PIN code

 

[TukayAway]

I work in a bank and see this a lot. Fortunately, since Chip&Pin was introduced, it has decreased a lot but I have heard of skimming devices on ticket issuing machines. As soon as the banks/card issuers install a new security device, the fraudsters turn to another scheme. Now we have to put up with cash trap devices on atms. This is where you use your card on a cash machine, it sounds like it's working but doesn't dispense any money. You walk away, the fraudster walks up behind you and pulls a metal strip off the dispensing slot that has your money glued to it. Your account gets debited, and the atm shows that there wasn't a problem as the money has gone. Personally I would never use an atm that isn't covered by CCTV or use one late at night/early morning.

 

[Geezertronic]

A bloke I know reckons he had his card skimmed at the local Total petrol station since that was the only time he had used that particular card in the last few weeks before he was notified. Scary since he said the cashier said his card had been refused first and he had to type in his PIN again before the cashier said it was accepted ?!

 

[HST Power]

I had my card attacked a few years ago. Somebody tried to book a holiday in New York and top up their mobile. Luckily, Barclays were on form and called me up quickly. The transaction got blocked, thank goodness, or I'd be a good few grand short!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I had my card attacked a few years ago. Somebody tried to book a holiday in New York and top up their mobile. Luckily, Barclays were on form and called me up quickly. The transaction got blocked, thank goodness, or I'd be a good few grand short!

They can't be very bright then - they've made a very easily traceable payment.

 

[90019]

I'm not too worried about card fraud, because the card I use to pay for things is a debit card and I generally don't keep much money in that account anyway.

 

[HST Power]

They can't be very bright then - they've made a very easily traceable payment.

Probably not! But the main thing is that they were stopped, and thank God they were!

 

[MrC]

They can't be very bright then - they've made a very easily traceable payment.

I think many 'professional' skimmers buy goods and services which they can try to sell on, claim cash refunds for or otherwise realise some of the value without using what they've purchased themselves. In this case it might be that they had no intention of using the holiday (or yes, they're extremely thick ).

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The best thing to do is buy goods in small amounts in one place. Lots of locations, types, services and expenses will alert your bank.

 

[me123]

A bloke I know reckons he had his card skimmed at the local Total petrol station since that was the only time he had used that particular card in the last few weeks before he was notified. Scary since he said the cashier said his card had been refused first and he had to type in his PIN again before the cashier said it was accepted ?!

If he typed his PIN in before it was rejected, he should probably be worried, and should have had a void receipt (to say that nothing has been taken from the account there). But if he didn't enter his PIN, there's not as much risk as the scammer needs the PIN in order to buy anything in person. They'd also need the security code to buy things online, but that's more easy to come by.

Generally, if you're ever suspicious about using your card in a particular store, play it safe and use cash. If you think something's happened, go straight to an ATM at the bank and change your PIN.

 

[causton]

Scary since he said the cashier said his card had been refused first and he had to type in his PIN again before the cashier said it was accepted ?!

That happens a lot at the retailer I work for. (By a lot, I mean about once every 2 shifts I do)

For some reason the PIN is accepted as right (the card terminal will immediately ask them to re-enter their PIN if it is wrong) but payment is declined - so they try again, same card, same payment, but it is accepted! Of course, a void receipt is printed, which says TRANSACTION HAS BEEN CANCELLED - which I show to the customer then file away as required.

I would myself be very wary if the transaction showed 'declined' and there was no receipt printed to say so...

 

[185]

The Avantix chip and pin has often flagged up Withhold Card, which I always double confirmed with Barclays Merchant Services. £50 reward if you pull a dodgy card and send it in, but no-one should endanger their safety to withdraw one.

 

[transportphoto]

The Avantix chip and pin has often flagged up Withhold Card, which I always double confirmed with Barclays Merchant Services. £50 reward if you pull a dodgy card and send it in, but no-one should endanger their safety to withdraw one.

Eventhough the bank authorizes the withdrawal of the card, you don't in-case you get done by your manager? That doesn't tally!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Eventhough the bank authorizes the withdrawal of the card, you don't in-case you get done by your manager? That doesn't tally!

I think he's suggesting a comeback from the cardholder

 

[jon0844]

They can't be very bright then - they've made a very easily traceable payment.

The police rarely get involved these days. They've been trying hard to make it a bank problem, and given the bank will probably just refund you, it may not even be counted as a crime.

 

[transportphoto]

I think he's suggesting a comeback from the cardholder

Didn't think of that :roll: thanks ralph!