Capacity checker

[Shrop]

I've just discovered the Capacity Checker tool on the TfW route so I thought I'd try the next few days from Shrewsbury to Cardiff, bit it's very off-putting.
I looked at a weekday 13.40 departure, thinking it ought to be as uncrowded as any daytime service, but it shows "few or no seats" throughout. There are "some seats" shown on occasional services, but generally not many at all at any time.
Yet having used this route recently, there are usually a good number of seats on most services, so is this Capacity Checker tool not doing an unnecessary disservice to would-be passengers?

 

[185143]

Most people's experience of that line would match the data reflected in the Capacity Checker. I've pretty much always found those trains to be absolutely rammed.

With the notable exception of the last time I travelled, the ASLEF strike day a couple of Saturdays ago. TfW tried, and succeeded, to scare everyone off citing overcrowding as a result of other TOCs strikes. I shared my table on a 2 car 150 with a fascinating guy from the US, though we could easily have sat separately. The previous time I travelled on a Saturday, it was the train an hour earlier. Standing room only from Stockport and stood all the way down the aisles from Shrewsbury. And that was a 3 car 175!

 

[Shrop]

Most people's experience of that line would match the data reflected in the Capacity Checker. I've pretty much always found those trains to be absolutely rammed.

With the notable exception of the last time I travelled, the ASLEF strike day a couple of Saturdays ago. TfW tried, and succeeded, to scare everyone off citing overcrowding as a result of other TOCs strikes. I shared my table on a 2 car 150 with a fascinating guy from the US, though we could easily have sat separately. The previous time I travelled on a Saturday, it was the train an hour earlier. Standing room only from Stockport and stood all the way down the aisles from Shrewsbury. And that was a 3 car 175!

Quite a double edged sword. It sounds like despite the best efforts of TfW to deter travel, their trains are packed anyway! This ought to be great for business, but wouldn't you think it would be in the interests of TfW to increase capacity?
Perhaps more significantly, successive Governments have claimed for decades to be promoting public transport, yet the reality is completely opposite. If TfW is any example, people are very keen to use trains, but the capacity simply isn't there.
So despite my initial reservation about this CC tool, perhaps it could have a significant value in being used to (verbally) slap Ministers about their heads until they take notice and see what is actually happening in the real world?

 

[SickyNicky]

Quite a double edged sword. It sounds like despite the best efforts of TfW to deter travel, their trains are packed anyway! This ought to be great for business, but wouldn't you think it would be in the interests of TfW to increase capacity?
Perhaps more significantly, successive Governments have claimed for decades to be promoting public transport, yet the reality is completely opposite. If TfW is any example, people are very keen to use trains, but the capacity simply isn't there.
So despite my initial reservation about this CC tool, perhaps it could have a significant value in being used to (verbally) slap Ministers about their heads until they take notice and see what is actually happening in the real world?

I agree, although it has been like this for years.

A two coach train from Manchester to Carmarthen at 15.30 on a Tuesday (like I was on this week) is laughable compared to the demand. Not for the first time, people were left behind.

 

[Shrop]

I agree, although it has been like this for years.

A two coach train from Manchester to Carmarthen at 15.30 on a Tuesday (like I was on this week) is laughable compared to the demand. Not for the first time, people were left behind.

Unless I'm mistaken, yes the Marches route does load very well. I said above that I've found seats, but that was on off peak trains and even those trains were certainly still well loaded.
This begs a question which I would ask others to comment on. We all know that peak trains on most routes load well, but a good number of routes load quite lightly off peak. So my question is - Does the Marches route (Manchester to Cardiff) have higher off peak passenger loadings than most long distance routes in the UK? Especially in comparison with the apparently inadequate provision of coaching stock?

 

[trainophile]

There's no competition on that line if you want to get to Hereford/South Wales. I've given up on TfW, unless you're at Piccadilly when the inbound train arrives you might as well forget it. Five or six hour journeys with people crammed into the aisles. Their Twitter feed every day bears evidence of the total inadequacy of this line's provision.

 

[SickyNicky]

I've given up on TfW, unless you're at Piccadilly when the inbound train arrives you might as well forget it.

Which is, of course, exactly what I did. But you feel really sorry for the folks who turned up 5 mins before the train was due to leave and couldn't get on. Especially those with "a place is reserved on this train" type reservations, which are, of course, not worth the paper (or screen) they're written on.

Anyway, this is getting a little off topic. The public Darwin feed is supposed to be gradually starting to get passenger loadings - there was a recent update to accomodate this. I've not yet looked at the data - perhaps someone else has? It should be possible to build proper capacity checkers using real and historic information once they get the data right.

 

[Adam Williams]

Which is, of course, exactly what I did. But you feel really sorry for the folks who turned up 5 mins before the train was due to leave and couldn't get on. Especially those with "a place is reserved on this train" type reservations, which are, of course, not worth the paper (or screen) they're written on.

Anyway, this is getting a little off topic. The public Darwin feed is supposed to be gradually starting to get passenger loadings - there was a recent update to accomodate this. I've not yet looked at the data - perhaps someone else has? It should be possible to build proper capacity checkers using real and historic information once they get the data right.

I believe it's exposed via CCLDB if you want something graphical/"pretty" (not by my standards!) for visualising the loading data

It's definitely there for some Chiltern services. Not massively convinced as to how accurate it is, though.

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

Yes, TfW's capacity checker isn't the best. Really, I think it was built around the Core Valley Lines, telling commuters about a standard peak/off peak pattern on many lines, based around the single or double 150 formation as well as the addition of 4 car 769s.

Marches Line is normally full and standing anyway!

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

Anyway, this is getting a little off topic. The public Darwin feed is supposed to be gradually starting to get passenger loadings - there was a recent update to accomodate this. I've not yet looked at the data - perhaps someone else has? It should be possible to build proper capacity checkers using real and historic information once they get the data right.

I've only seen it for Southeastern (of course there may be others) and not seen it yet from TfW. Perhaps it's on the way...

The Darwin messages allow for expected average loadings at each station, and real-time loadings per carriage, both as a percentage, although of what is arguable. This has been possible for a few years. The recent change, which will not appear on the open data version yet as far as I know, is add a definition of categories of loading per TOC with names and colours to display, so might be used for a red/yellow/green display. Real-time loading will then be able to be reported as a percentage as now, or a category. On Southeastern, many more trains have the historic loading info than have it in real-time as well.

 

[trainophile]

With TfW it's pot luck whether you get a 2-coach or a 3-coach train, and on the busiest routes (Marches for one) they are more often than not 2-coach. If the loading capacity stats are based on the rare 3-coaches, it's no wonder they are rammed.

 

[6Gman]

With TfW it's pot luck whether you get a 2-coach or a 3-coach train, and on the busiest routes (Marches for one) they are more often than not 2-coach. If the loading capacity stats are based on the rare 3-coaches, it's no wonder they are rammed.

I've seen 75 Manchester-S Wales trains this year.

20 x 2-car and 55 x 3-car.

Other people's experiences may of course differ.

 

[centraluser]

For Chiltern, Average Train Loadings are sent to Darwin each Thursday to go live on Friday morning, based on ATL data for each service for the previous two weeks. Loading data is Day specific. There is a minor Darwin update / release tonight which should hopefully resolve some reporting issues for SouthEastern and Chiltern. No Chiltern loading data is live - it cannot take account of short or over-formed trains.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I can’t see how useful that information is for many services. Most people travel for a purpose and will wish to leave or arrive at their destination around a certain time. On routes with an hourly service how will telling them the next 3 departures are likely to be very busy help them? Surely, rather than choosing to arrive 3 hours later than they planned to the most likely outcome is they will just choose another mode of transport or disregard the data and travel on the service they were intending to anyway.