Cant (superelevation) at Shepreth

[ocelocelot]

I've noticed when taking the stopper on the Hitchin to Cambridge line (line reference SBR) that the line seems to have significant cant (superelevation) at Shepreth. When it stops, the train is tilted noticeably - almost uncomfortably - which feels fine when you're travelling through [ because something something centripetal force] but not when you're stopped.

I was trying to read the datum plates on the Up platform while travelling towards Cambridge today to see what the cant measurement was, but they're so corroded that I couldn't make out any of the measurements - does anyone know them or where they might be publicly available? ( I've not had a chance to look at whether there are readable plates on the Down platform)

Are there other places where trains stop (stations or otherwise) that have perhaps uncomfortable levels of cant?

 

[Nean]

Are there other places where trains stop (stations or otherwise) that have perhaps uncomfortable levels of cant?

Trafford Park on the Cheshire Lines always seems quite noticeable to me... Once I'd finished too much of my coffee by that point so it started sliding down the table!

 

[edwin_m]

I'll try to remember to look it up on the work computer tomorrow.

It's a relatively tight curve with long straight sections either side (it was originally where the GE branch from Cambridge met the GN from Hitchin, and presumably when the alignments were designed nobody was thinking of joining them). So it will probably be at or near the maximum cant for platforms, 110mm IIRC, to minimise the restriction for non-stopping trains.

 

[PeterY]

If a London Midland class 350 stops on the up or down fasts at Berkhamsted the cant is very noticeable

 

[njamescouk]

platform 4 at meadowhall v noticeable, someone actually asked me about it once. suspect platform 3 the same, but doesn't seem so bad, poss because on outside of curve?

 

[jopsuk]

The original GE plans had the line heading straight on at Shepreth, north of Meldreth. I'm not quite sure, but I think the GN planned to head straight on at Royston, south of Melbourn.

They built to Shepreth and Royston, then someone knocked some heads together

 

[edwin_m]

Unfortunately the relevant plan is missing off our server so I can't tell you the cant at Shepreth.

 

[ocelocelot]

Unfortunately the relevant plan is missing off our server so I can't tell you the cant at Shepreth.

Thanks for looking though!

Coming out of Royston towards Cambridge the cant ramps up pretty quickly too - seemed to go from 0 to about 100mm within about five datum plates! Can't remember exactly though.

 

[philjo]

Back in WAGN days there was a blockade one August to replace a lot of the jointed track between Royston and Cambridge. Presumably the cant was changed then? previously there was quite a low speed restriction on the curve through Shepreth for trains that did not stop. you now pass through at a higher speed though still slow down on approaching the curve.


There is a very noticeable cant if stopped/going very slowly on the up fast line between Hornsey and Finsbury Park.

 

[A0]

Wellingborough's northbound platform (P1) is very noticeable as is the huge gap between the train and the platform edge.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Unfortunately the relevant plan is missing off our server so I can't tell you the cant at Shepreth.

I have a very old 5mile diagram which quotes the radius as 800m and cant as "?"

Based on the speed of 65mph through the station, you're looking at 105-110mm of cant.

 

[Ships]

Cant is 95mm through the platform with about 90mm deficiency on the down, on the up its 90mm with 110mm deficiency on the up.

 

[ocelocelot]

Cant is 95mm through the platform with about 90mm deficiency on the down, on the up its 90mm with 110mm deficiency on the up.

Thank you for providing this information!

(Cant believe nobody's made the obvious pun)

 

[MikePJ]

The original GE plans had the line heading straight on at Shepreth, north of Meldreth. I'm not quite sure, but I think the GN planned to head straight on at Royston, south of Melbourn.

They built to Shepreth and Royston, then someone knocked some heads together

I actually got the original drawings for the Eastern Counties Railway (later the Great Eastern Railway) proposal - it was for a line linking Cambridge with Bedford. They got Parliamentary consent for the line as a way of keeping out their rivals from the region. However, their bluff was called when Parliament authorised the GN company to connect with it at Shepreth - that's why the line curves on the west side of Shepreth level crossing.

Lots of details and the original drawing here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2456922#post2456922

On the subject of stations with high degrees of cant: Rowland's Castle. The up platform in particular had a massive drop when I used the line regularly in the 90s.

 

[jopsuk]

I actually got the original drawings for the Eastern Counties Railway (later the Great Eastern Railway) proposal - it was for a line linking Cambridge with Bedford. They got Parliamentary consent for the line as a way of keeping out their rivals from the region. However, their bluff was called when Parliament authorised the GN company to connect with it at Shepreth - that's why the line curves on the west side of Shepreth level crossing.

Lots of details and the original drawing here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2456922#post2456922

Excellent! I'd love to know if I'm right about the GN- if they had planned to go the other side of Melbourn

 

[MikePJ]

Excellent! I'd love to know if I'm right about the GN- if they had planned to go the other side of Melbourn

A local historian explains here: https://jonathanspain.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/the-railway-in-the-rhee-valley/

Meanwhile the GNR was still considering plans for a direct route from Kings X to Cambridge, even going so far as to consider a separate line from Shepreth to Cambridge. One proposal was to make use of a section of the Cambridge-Bedford line, opened in 1862, taking a route from Shepreth through Barrington and Haslingfield and connecting to the Cambridge-Bedford line one and a half miles on the Cambridge side of Lord’s Bridge station. Presumably this line would have crossed the river Rhee before the confluence with the Granta and skirted the side of Chapel Hill. Another proposal was to make use of the ECR line from Shepreth but with a separate terminus in central Cambridge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sod]

London Road Guildford has a substantial amount of cant. The (nearly) eponymous German philosopher would doubtless be rightly chuffed.

 

[DelW]

Once I'd finished too much of my coffee by that point so it started sliding down the table!

A few years ago in the days of Leisure First (as I think it was called then) on Eurostar, four of us were travelling back from Brussels and taking full advantage of the food-and-wine-included catering. We came to a stand on the sharp east to north curve approaching Lille, where it took our combined efforts grabbing onto everything to prevent our meals and drinks sliding off onto the floor.

The wine offering could be generous in those days, I think we got our last serving somewhere around Dagenham, so had quite a rush to finish it before getting into St Pancras.

 

[Senex]

A few years ago in the days of Leisure First (as I think it was called then) on Eurostar, four of us were travelling back from Brussels and taking full advantage of the food-and-wine-included catering. We came to a stand on the sharp east to north curve approaching Lille, where it took our combined efforts grabbing onto everything to prevent our meals and drinks sliding off onto the floor.

The wine offering could be generous in those days, I think we got our last serving somewhere around Dagenham, so had quite a rush to finish it before getting into St Pancras.

The French have always been rather more permissive than us with their cant values! And yes, I remember with great affection those days on Eurostar with much better and more lavish meals and an unlimited supply of wine!

 

[507 001]

Colwyn Bay has a considerable amount of cant through both platforms, so much so that the sliding doors separating the saloon from the vestibule on a voyager won't stay open!