Can't match this Trainline ticket elsewhere

[dygordon]

Found a return fare Gatwick Airport <-> London St Pancras at Trainline, but I can't replicate it at ThamesLink, TrainSplit, etc. and I'd prefer not to buy from Trainline.

Itinerary is:

Depart Gatwick Airport July 1 9:45 AM or later
Return London St Pancras July 4 10 AM or later

2 adults, 2 children

Trainline shows £55.40 for Anytime Return, 0 changes, must travel together, 2 adults @ £25.70 per and 2 children @ £2.00 per.

ThamesLink and elsewhere best I can do is Anytime Day Single with GroupSave for £61.00 (3 adults @ £9.50, 1 child @ £2.00). Tried splitting the fare at East Croydon to no avail.

Any ideas what's going on and how to buy this for £55.40 not from Trainline?

 

[Wandering Pom]

I tried running this through Trainline and the forum's own ticket site, and also looked at BRFares for this journey.

Trainline is also offering me £55.40 (plus fee) - see this enquiry result. This does indeed look like two adult Anytime returns (code SOR) at £25.70 each, plus two child returns at £2.00 each, described at BRFares as "CHILD FLTFARE R" or "ACCOMPANIED CHILD R", code TKR.
Conversely, the forum's website is quoting me a total of £77.10 (see this enquiry result). I haven't yet worked out to get a breakdown, but it looks very much like two adult "SOR" returns, as with Trainline, plus two child "SOR" returns, at £12.85 each.
I'm afraid you'll need more experienced folk than me to explain why Trainline offers the £2 child fare rather than the £12.85 fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any ideas what's going on and how to buy this for £55.40 not from Trainline?

If you simply mean "without paying a fee for buying from Trainline" rather than a genuine boycott, you could buy it on the day on their app which charges no extra fee, or use WMT's LNR branded app which now appears to have Trainline's splitting functionality built into it (like many TOC apps it's a Trainline whitelabel site/app).

 

[Benjwri]

I’m not sure whose fault it is that this is being offered, but the issue here is Trainline is incorrectly offering the £2 child fares. These are only valid at Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak times (Although what these times are isn’t clearly specified one assumes this is the time specified by a comparable ticket in the journey)

To quote NRE:

These tickets are available for most Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak journeys across the Great Northern & Thameslink network.

Up to 4 children accompanied by an adult holding a valid ticket and / or travel pass for the entire journey, can travel for £2 each at Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak times

 

[Watershed]

I’m not sure whose fault it is that this is being offered, but the issue here is Trainline is incorrectly offering the £2 child fares. These are only valid at Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak times (Although what these times are isn’t clearly specified one assumes this is the time specified by a comparable ticket in the journey)

To quote NRE:

Given that there's nothing in the fares data to tell retailers about these restrictions, it's not hugely surprising that some retailers are going by what the data says, i.e. no restrictions.

 

[Benjwri]

Given that there's nothing in the fares data to tell retailers about these restrictions, it's not hugely surprising that some retailers are going by what the data says, i.e. no restrictions.

Yeah that’s why I said I wasn’t sure whose fault as wasn’t sure if there was a negative easement floating in the data somewhere.

 

[Watershed]

Yeah that’s why I said I wasn’t sure whose fault as wasn’t sure if there was a negative easement floating in the data somewhere.

Negative easements apply to routing - this is a question of time restrictions.

 

[30907]

I’m not sure whose fault it is that this is being offered, but the issue here is Trainline is incorrectly offering the £2 child fares. These are only valid at Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak times ...

To quote NRE:
"These tickets are available for most Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak journeys across the Great Northern & Thameslink network.
Up to 4 children accompanied by an adult holding a valid ticket and / or travel pass for the entire journey, can travel for £2 each at Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak times"

It doesn't specify "an off-peak ticket." The OP is travelling after 0945/1000 which are presumably Off-Peak times. The Anytime is obviously a valid ticket at that time, and IMO TL is correct.
The problem would be with using the £2 tickets at "peak" times, if TL failed to warn customers of the restriction.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The problem would be with using the £2 tickets at "peak" times, if TL failed to warn customers of the restriction.

TL will sell you tickets for the train you select. If valid on other trains too (i.e. it's not an advance) then it will say "also valid on..." so I'd say they do tell customers. But probably not in a way forum members want.

 

[transportphoto]

Trainline shows £55.40 for Anytime Return, 0 changes, must travel together, 2 adults @ £25.70 per and 2 children @ £2.00 per.

If it weren’t for the fact your journey is starting at Gatwick (known for long queues, etc) - I’d suggest buying these tickets on the day. Are you able to visit a ticket office elsewhere prior to travel?

 

[dygordon]

Thanks all for your informative discussion! Unfortunately I can't visit an office elsewhere (in Canada until then).

I am not necessarily opposed to buying from Trainline. I would just prefer to support others. And of course want to be sure the tickets are valid, which I am now equipped to ascertain.

 

[Crithylum]

TfL fare finder puts a single off peak at £10.10 (adult)
I believe oyster (and contactless) is valid on Thameslink beginning at Gatwick
Child tickets may still need to be purchased through Trainline if they don’t have Zip cards

 

[island]

I’m not sure whose fault it is that this is being offered, but the issue here is Trainline is incorrectly offering the £2 child fares. These are only valid at Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak times (Although what these times are isn’t clearly specified one assumes this is the time specified by a comparable ticket in the journey)

I do not agree that it is incorrect. The passenger wishes to travel at an off-peak time, and accordingly the child flat fare of £2 is appropriate.

The only period return for the journey is an Anytime Return, but that does not mean that the £2 child flat fares are not allowed.

TfL fare finder puts a single off peak at £10.10 (adult)
I believe oyster (and contactless) is valid on Thameslink beginning at Gatwick
Child tickets may still need to be purchased through Trainline if they don’t have Zip cards

Welcome to the forum. You are correct that Oyster/Contactless are valid from Gatwick to St Pancras. It should be noted that the £2 child flat fare is only valid when accompanied by at least one adult using an actual ticket (not pay as you go), so without same the normal child fare is charged.

To the original question, will you be taking any other trains/underground/buses within London on 01•JLY•24? If so, you may find that the off-peak family Travelcard at £17.70 adult and £2 child suitable for your purposes, valid for one day and covering one return journey from Gatwick to the edge of the London zones, then unlimited journeys within the zones. This would only cover that one day; on the journey back to Gatwick you could have one adult and two children get single tickets (£14.40 plus 2x£2) and the last adult use contactless payment (£10). This comes to £67.80 altogether, including unlimited travel within London zones for all four of you on day 1. A single fare within central London is at least £2.70 per person, so with even one return journey this would save you money.

For completeness, I also considered suggesting a child Zip card or an Oyster card with young visitor discount, but these (1) have upfront fees which would likely wipe out any savings, and (2) cannot be issued at Gatwick Airport, only in central London.

 

[dygordon]

To the original question, will you be taking any other trains/underground/buses within London on 01•JLY•24? If so, you may find that the off-peak family Travelcard at £17.70 adult and £2 child suitable for your purposes, valid for one day and covering one return journey from Gatwick to the edge of the London zones, then unlimited journeys within the zones....For completeness, I also considered suggesting a child Zip card or an Oyster card with young visitor discount, but these (1) have upfront fees which would likely wipe out any savings, and (2) cannot be issued at Gatwick Airport, only in central London.

Thanks for this. The kids are under 10 so they will travel free with us on contactless. And I doubt we will do much if any travel that day.

But we are also travelling 7/19 Gatwick -> London Victoria @ 16:00, returning to Gatwick 7/20 @ 08:00. And 3 off-peak family Travelcards + 1 adult contactless for each day (£21.70 + £10.10 = £31.80, x2 = £63.60) is a lot better than £84.70+ for non-advance tickets. Happy to hear any further suggestions on that too, of course!

 

[island]

The kids are under 10 so they will travel free with us on contactless.

Just to note that children aged 5-10 need tickets on [most] National Rail services. Free travel is a TfL thing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2024 ==

But we are also travelling 7/19 Gatwick -> London Victoria @ 16:00, returning to Gatwick 7/20 @ 08:00. And 3 off-peak family Travelcards + 1 adult contactless for each day (£21.70 + £10.10 = £31.80, x2 = £63.60) is a lot better than £84.70+ for non-advance tickets. Happy to hear any further suggestions on that too, of course!

As 20/7 is a Saturday you can access cheaper super off peak fares that day.