Cant angle at stations

[Bayum]

Watching a video at Wolverton and I’m struck watching a 350 depart how steep the cant is and how I’d struggle to board/exit the train at such an angle. What impact would levelling the track out at such a station have? My assumption would be that it would have an effect on speed, potentially looking at whether the train would be able to freely pass the station without ripping part of the platform with it.

 

[td97]

The latest track design standard allows more "deficiency" i.e. unbalanced force around a curve. Presumably you're talking about the slows at 70mph. I don't know the curve radius at Wolverton, but at 70mph the minimum uncanted curve radius would be 990m (previously 1350m). Consideration of freight may increase that slightly further.
The downside is reducing the cant at (for example) an existing station would mean an expensive track renewal to lower the track.

 

[coppercapped]

An example of a station where the cant was reduced is Reading. Until the early 1970s the Down Main through Platform 4 was canted for 75mph. However this made for quite a step up to the coaches and the doors had to be held open as they tended to slam shut as the platform was on the outside of the curve. When the later Mark 2 coaches arrived with the large and heavy end doors this became quite a problem and about then the cant was reduced and the speed limit on the Down Main reduced to 50mph where it remained until the station was rebuilt a dozen years ago. I am afraid that I can no longer remember the exact year the work was carried out.

This change had the odd effect that the Relief Lines had a higher speed limit (60mph) than the Down Main, the Up Main which had no platform face remained at 85mph.

 

[Purple Train]

Watching a video at Wolverton and I’m struck watching a 350 depart how steep the cant is and how I’d struggle to board/exit the train at such an angle. What impact would levelling the track out at such a station have? My assumption would be that it would have an effect on speed, potentially looking at whether the train would be able to freely pass the station without ripping part of the platform with it.

It's definitely a very steep angle, but it's also a comparatively sharp curve. Levelling the track would reduce the permitted speed, which, given the density of operations around there, might not be a good idea, even if only on the slows.

 

[td97]

Levelling the track would reduce the permitted speed

Not necessarily, as I've described above.

 

[greyman42]

However this made for quite a step up to the coaches and the doors had to be held open as they tended to slam shut as the platform was on the outside of the curve.

It is either Garforth or Micklefield station that has quite a cant, causing the doors on the 185s to need a push sometimes to open them, on the north east bound services.

 

[Wychwood93]

It is either Garforth or Micklefield station that has quite a cant, causing the doors on the 185s to need a push sometimes to open them, on the north east bound services.

You get the same at Ashurst New Forest on the up.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I can recall in the days of Mark 2 stock that when a train called at Grantham all the interior doors slid open in the rearmost carriages because the springs that held them shut were not strong enough to overcome gravity on the steeply canted curve. Mark 3s and later had power assisted doors which didn't have the same problem.

 

[800301]

I can recall in the days of Mark 2 stock that when a train called at Grantham all the interior doors slid open in the rearmost carriages because the springs that held them shut were not strong enough to overcome gravity on the steeply canted curve. Mark 3s and later had power assisted doors which didn't have the same problem.

Certain platforms at Paddington cause issues with the toilet doors refusing to close or open or get jammed on the UATs at the Bristol end of 12 car 387’s and 9/10car 800’s

 

[The exile]

Certain platforms at Paddington cause issues with the toilet doors refusing to close or open or get jammed on the UATs at the Bristol end of 12 car 387’s and 9/10car 800’s

Why would you need to cant track at a terminus?

 

[800301]

Why would you need to cant track at a terminus?

The entrance into Paddington is on quite a curve

 

[The exile]

The entrance into Paddington is on quite a curve

But not one to be taken at speed (one hopes!)

 

[swt_passenger]

But not one to be taken at speed (one hopes!)

I think a previous discussion somewhere found the Paddington departure speeds are unusually fast for a terminus.

 

[hexagon789]

But not one to be taken at speed (one hopes!)

No, but you can depart certain platforms at 40mph.

I think a previous discussion somewhere found the Paddington departure speeds are unusually fast for a terminus.

See above

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

When we decided to travel from Long Buckby to Wolverton and back for a walk by the canal, I had to give the three young children who were with us a very strict talking to about holding hands and stepping off the train rather than jumping! There can't be many main line stations that still have such a high step on their regularly used platforms than those two.

 

[Boodiggy]

Not necessarily, as I've described above.

It more than likely would at Wolverton due to location and length of transitions.

 

[Merle Haggard]

When we decided to travel from Long Buckby to Wolverton and back for a walk by the canal, I had to give the three young children who were with us a very strict talking to about holding hands and stepping off the train rather than jumping! There can't be many main line stations that still have such a high step on their regularly used platforms than those two.

It's a Northamptonshire/North Bucks speciality!

q.v. Wellingborough and. to a lesser extent Kettering (down fast). Don't know about King's Sutton. Northampton is fine, though.

 

[D6130]

It is either Garforth or Micklefield station that has quite a cant, causing the doors on the 185s to need a push sometimes to open them, on the north east bound services.

That will be Garforth....the platforms at Micklefield are straight.

 

[zwk500]

Not necessarily, as I've described above.

At Wolverton it likely would, as indicated by the fact the station is already limited to 70mph when the ruling linespeed on the Slows is 90/100mph IIRC.

When we decided to travel from Long Buckby to Wolverton and back for a walk by the canal, I had to give the three young children who were with us a very strict talking to about holding hands and stepping off the train rather than jumping! There can't be many main line stations that still have such a high step on their regularly used platforms than those two.

I think there was a previous thread on largest steps, and somewhere I remember seeing a graph plotting the step of a large proportion of UK rail platforms but now couldn't find it with a month of sundays.

q.v. Wellingborough and. to a lesser extent Kettering (down fast). Don't know about King's Sutton. Northampton is fine, though.

Northampton has on at least Platform 2/3 a bit of a step at one end I think. However it is massively helped by being relatively straight and low speed, especially with the through line for up traffic.

MKC isn't too bad, again as it's largely straight. But Wolverton and Long Buckby being on fairly sharp curves (and in Wolverton's case, bridges limiting what you can do with the track) are really bad. Used to be a good wake-up call when commuting from Wolverton to jump up on the train, especially if running a tad late.

 

[Merle Haggard]

At Wolverton it likely would, as indicated by the fact the station is already limited to 70mph when the ruling linespeed on the Slows is 90/100mph IIRC.

I think there was a previous thread on largest steps, and somewhere I remember seeing a graph plotting the step of a large proportion of UK rail platforms but now couldn't find it with a month of sundays.

Northampton has on at least Platform 2/3 a bit of a step at one end I think. However it is massively helped by being relatively straight and low speed, especially with the through line for up traffic.

MKC isn't too bad, again as it's largely straight. But Wolverton and Long Buckby being on fairly sharp curves (and in Wolverton's case, bridges limiting what you can do with the track) are really bad. Used to be a good wake-up call when commuting from Wolverton to jump up on the train, especially if running a tad late.

An irony with Wolverton is that the London & Birmingham Railway ran in a straight line (literally!) through Wolverton, but, as the Works expanded on both sides off the line, the 'Deviation' was built with its sharp curves. Presumably the exact location of the station was dictated by needing to be close to the Works entrance for all the staff that came from the Newport Pagnall branch, which joined the main line near to the station.

 

[zwk500]

An irony with Wolverton is that the London & Birmingham Railway ran in a straight line (literally!) through Wolverton, but, as the Works expanded on both sides off the line, the 'Deviation' was built with its sharp curves. Presumably the exact location of the station was dictated by needing to be close to the Works entrance for all the staff that came from the Newport Pagnall branch, which joined the main line near to the station.

I believe the location was dictated by needing to get back onto the viaduct not far north of the station, and was simply the closest they could build to the line without needing to rebuild works buildings. I think the buildings between the old and new lines may well have been drawing offices, although it's been a while since I stopped to read the displays on the refurbed buildings. The original entrance was on the road bridge above the tracks, rather than the current building location on Platform 4.

 

[td97]

It more than likely would at Wolverton due to location and length of transitions.

At Wolverton it likely would, as indicated by the fact the station is already limited to 70mph when the ruling linespeed on the Slows is 90/100mph IIRC.

The standards change (last year) now allows more cant deficiency than before. Even if the applied cant cannot be entirely eliminated, it could now be reduced.
But this still applies:

The downside is reducing the cant at (for example) an existing station would mean an expensive track renewal to lower the track.

 

[midland1]

It's a Northamptonshire/North Bucks speciality!

q.v. Wellingborough and. to a lesser extent Kettering (down fast). Don't know about King's Sutton. Northampton is fine, though.

Also it used to be next stop up the MML as well, Market Harborough.

 

[Mugby]

When we decided to travel from Long Buckby to Wolverton and back for a walk by the canal, I had to give the three young children who were with us a very strict talking to about holding hands and stepping off the train rather than jumping! There can't be many main line stations that still have such a high step on their regularly used platforms than those two.

I can think of one; Tamworth Low Level, Platform 1. It has the highest step and largest gap I've ever seen, you need to be really careful boarding or alighting.

 

[Boodiggy]

The standards change (last year) now allows more cant deficiency than before. Even if the applied cant cannot be entirely eliminated, it could now be reduced.
But this still applies:

The US was renewed earlier this year and even with the new standards it could not be done.

 

[The Planner]

5 mile diagrams have it as a 1372m radius curve with a 150mm cant on the up fast.

 

[Taunton]

I seem to recall a previous discussion that Penrith on the down line had the greatest cant at a platform, probably maximised for the 1974 WCML electrification. In the 1970s-80s it was certainly one of those where Mk2 interior doors would slide open when stopped.

There is a difference between cant angle and the stepping distance to the platform, although the latter may need to be further away to allow for the ends of vehicles rounding the curve; the worst of those I know (setting aside Bank on the Central Line) was, to my surprise, Hackbridge in South London on the Down line, where the combination of cant and surprisingly low platform made for a stepping distance which I found close to the maximum I could handle.

 

[Boodiggy]

5 mile diagrams have it as a 1372m radius curve with a 150mm cant on the up fast.

I am not sure how accurate the 5 mile diagrams are against the TAD for WCML fast lines but it is 150mm cant, same through the reverse curves between the station and Haversham viaduct.

 

[Recessio]

Is Raynes Park canted, or is just really curved?