Can't afford unpaid fare notice

[confused88]

Hi,

I've been issued with an unpaid fare notice of £63 for travelling on the wrong train between Derby and St Pancras. I can't afford to pay it in one lump sum though as I'm on JSA. Is there anyway I can contact them to make payments in instalments.

 

[34D]

You can try.... however before you write to them, can you give us all the background.

What ticket(s) did you hold, and for what trains? What train(s) did you actually travel on, and for what reason?

 

[bb21]

£63 is the price of an SSS between Derby and London Terminals, so my guess is that the OP was on an incorrect service with an Advance ticket but did not have the money to pay for the new ticket.

More details from the OP would certainly help. However I will say that train companies will listen and be willing to make arrangements if you have financial difficulties. After all there is no point of them pushing for the whole amount immediately if the debtor cannot afford it.

 

[radamfi]

I can't believe I'm saying this but...Wonga.com?

 

[ainsworth74]

I can't believe I'm saying this but...Wonga.com?

Only as an utter last resort and even then I'd suggest avoiding it.

The best advice I feel is going to be to get in contact with the TOC in question and explain that you're perfectly willing to pay the UPFN but due to your financial circumstances you need to arrange to pay it on an instalment basis.

 

[bb21]

I can't believe I'm saying this but...Wonga.com?

That would certainly be an option should things deteriorate quickly, however as the OP is already having personal finance problems, I would advise extreme caution if going down this route.

I strongly suggest that the OP get in touch with the train company if not already done so.

 

[gingerheid]

I can't believe I'm saying this but...Wonga.com?

Everything that needs said has been, but not everyone that needs to say it has done.

Because too many people could never say so...

... this is a terrible terrible terrible idea. If he can't afford £63 he can't afford more than £63. OP: Stay away from all forms of loan shark, legal or illegal.

 

[michael769]

... this is a terrible terrible terrible idea.

This. Borrowing to pay off another debt is a fast track to ruin.

 

[radamfi]

But isn't a railway debt infinitely more serious than other bills, such as utility bills? Surely it is preferable to pay a railway debt immediately and stop paying all other bills because the railway is legally allowed to get tough by raising the amount due and threatening prosecution, whereas utilities cannot take such liberties and have to take circumstances into consideration, and at worst can only cut you off after a long time and won't prosecute.

 

[sheff1]

Oh dear, this is getting worse. Loan sharks can, and will, increase the debt far faster than anyone with pre-existing financial difficulties can cope with.

The OP should contact the TOC as already suggested and avoid wonga like the plague.

 

[island]

The best advice I feel is going to be to get in contact with the TOC in question and explain that you're perfectly willing to pay the UPFN but due to your financial circumstances you need to arrange to pay it on an instalment basis.

This. Could you afford £10.50 a month for 6 months?

 

[Fare-Cop]

This. Could you afford £10.50 a month for 6 months?

The difficulty with this suggestion is that an Unpaid Fare Notice asks for a rail fare nothing more. A rail fare is due in its entirety.

A one journey rail fare cannot normally be paid in instalments in this way, it isn't likely to be something that can be dealt with by a consumer credit arrangement. In the main the TOCs do not have a legal mechanism for administering it.

You might be able to persuade the TOC to grant you more time to pay and you might also be able to persuade them to accept that you had made a mistake through misunderstanding in boarding the wrong train. If so, you might be able to persuade them to accept the difference of fares between the fare paid and the SOS.

I would certainly write to the TOC and politely explore those questions first and although it is difficult, whatever you do make every effort to avoid the loan sharks.

 

[island]

We have had reports in the past of UPFNs being settled in instalments. I am not sure what the significance of consumer credit arrangements is.

 

[Fare-Cop]

We have had reports in the past of UPFNs being settled in instalments. I am not sure what the significance of consumer credit arrangements is.

The Consumer Credit Act (1974) requires businesses that lend money or offer goods or services on credit to be licensed by the OFT.

I'm not saying collection by instalment hasn't happened with some TOCs, but in my long experience from the fare collections & prosecution of offenders perspective, it has always been the practice to avoid setting up instalment plans for paying rail fares for this reason. Under the CC legislation other protections & procedures come into play if the person who owes the money fails to pay.

A one journey rail fare is due in full at the time of travel and not later. It isn't something that can be paid for a bit at a time. Your employer may purchase a season ticket for you and recoup it by paybill deductions, but that is a different matter.

I must stress that this is a wholly personal view, but I'm not a fan of the process of charging the full fare again for a journey when a traveller holds a ticket that is not valid for the train that they are on simply because of a booked time restriction, though I fully understand the business case justification.

If the terms & conditions relating to the ticket state that 'buy a new ticket' is the remedy for failing to comply with the T&Cs accepted by the ticket holder, then it is up to the ticket holder to ensure that they are on the right train.

Again, this is a wholly personal view, but I am of the opinion that the old-fashioned basic principle of excessing a ticket from "what the traveller has paid, up to what the traveller should have paid" for flexibility where there is no evidence of intent ought to be a better remedy, but that isn't the current situation with these tickets.

In the circumstances described by the OP, I think it very worthwhile to politely try to persuade the TOC to take a lesser, but manageable payment to clear this in one go and if they are minded to grant a slightly longer period in which to clear this so much the better.

 

[island]

Perhaps you might help me understand why a UPFN repayable in one payment is not a consumer credit agreement and one repayable in several is.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Perhaps you might help me understand why a UPFN repayable in one payment is not a consumer credit agreement and one repayable in several is.

because the debt and its liability have already arisen - there is no further offer of credit services, with the obligations that flow from that, even where there is no agreement to provide and accept any regulated service.

 

[island]

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Hellfire]

Yes do get in touch with the TOC and, no, don't go anywhere near a loan company.

The situation is that you owe the TOC £63 and you say you cannot afford to pay it all in one go. My advice is that you work out how much you can afford to pay monthly, without putting yourself in major financial difficulties.

Write to the TOC, explain your circumstances, and offer them the monthly payment. It is then up to he TOC to decide whether to accept hese monthly payments.

If they turn that down they could take you to a civil court to recover the sum outstanding. However this course of action will cost them money and, if your financial circumstances are as you describe, the court will probably rule that you can repay in instalments in any case so he TOC will be no better off.

Every debt advice service would tell anyone in our position to contact your creditor and attempt to agree a solution. Most creditors are happy to do that rather than get into additional costs.

If you do get an agreement with the TOC do make sure you stick to it.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Yes do get in touch with the TOC and, no, don't go anywhere near a loan company.

The situation is that you owe the TOC £63 and you say you cannot afford to pay it all in one go. My advice is that you work out how much you can afford to pay monthly, without putting yourself in major financial difficulties.

Write to the TOC, explain your circumstances, and offer them the monthly payment. It is then up to he TOC to decide whether to accept hese monthly payments.

If they turn that down they could take you to a civil court to recover the sum outstanding. However this course of action will cost them money and, if your financial circumstances are as you describe, the court will probably rule that you can repay in instalments in any case so he TOC will be no better off.

Every debt advice service would tell anyone in our position to contact your creditor and attempt to agree a solution. Most creditors are happy to do that rather than get into additional costs.

If you do get an agreement with the TOC do make sure you stick to it.

The problem is that many people make the mistake of always referring to these things as a 'civil' matter.

It is very unlikely that the TOC will process this as a civil (county court) matter. This is why I personally dislike the practice of pursuing this kind of case for the reason set out earlier.

The TOC could allege that the OP did not hold a valid ticket, was given the opportunity to pay the fare due under the rules and failed to do so.

That is pursued as a criminal charge, not a civil matter.

It is likely that, if the OP did nothing and allows a summons to be issued the charge could be dismissed, but there is no guarantee and so it's a risky strategy

 

[34D]

The problem is that many people make the mistake of always referring to these things as a 'civil' matter.

It is very unlikely that the TOC will process this as a civil (county court) matter. This is why I personally dislike the practice of pursuing this kind of case for the reason set out earlier.

The TOC could allege that the OP did not hold a valid ticket, was given the opportunity to pay the fare due under the rules and failed to do so.

That is pursued as a criminal charge, not a civil matter.

It is likely that, if the OP did nothing and allows a summons to be issued the charge could be dismissed, but there is no guarantee and so it's a risky strategy

For the OP, that would almost be a blessing in disguise, as a magistrates bench would consider his means.