Cancelled due to disruptive passengers earlier

[Andyh82]

Can anyone explain this. Both the following services were cancelled tonight due to "disruptive passengers earlier"

2E23 1848 Man Vic to Leeds 2011
2M74 2135 Leeds to Man Vic 2307

Perfectly understandable, but the puzzling bit is that both services according to RealTimeTrains still ran, as ECS workings 5E23 and 5M74

Why would they still run, in both directions?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Guard assaulted, thought he'd feel better, didn't?

 

[EM2]

Doors damaged?
The stock is obviously required at Vic, so it suggests that whatever the problem is, it occurred after leaving Vic at 1848.

 

[Andyh82]

Doors damaged?
The stock is obviously required at Vic, so it suggests that whatever the problem is, it occurred after leaving Vic at 1848.

Both services were cancelled throughout at 1830 and tweeted by Northern as such.

The next working after those two is an ECS to Newton Heath at 2313

 

[455driver]

Hoping to find a Guard that could work the return service from Leeds 2M74 but none available.

 

[northernchris]

Could it be that the unit switches in Leeds to get the balance right for Monday morning, and if the driver was still available the switch went ahead as planned?

 

[Crossover]

It doesn't appear to be the same stock. The stock from 2E23 then formed the 2035 Leeds to Victoria I think so I guess the crew (guard, at least) step back a train and have a PNB at Leeds.

Intriguingly, 2M74 is now running as 5M74 with the empty stock from Victoria to Newton Heath also booked to run as 5M74.

 

[yorksrob]

I hope the perpetrators were detained and charged.

 

[Crossover]

5M74 also didn't report between Whitehall Junction and Milner Royd Junction, so I suspect they have run it off booked path via Dewsbury and Brighouse to avoid the reversal at Bradford (and the potential problems it could cause at 10pm on a Saturday night)

 

[johntea]

After being on one of these services out of Manchester Victoria last weekend I'm not in the least bit surprised about something like this :roll:

 

[Master29]

Isn`t it possible this may have been something to do with FA cup weekend?

 

[roversfan2001]

Isn`t it possible this may have been something to do with FA cup weekend?

Yep, blame the football fans :roll:

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk

 

[LAX54]

It was the 1645 ex Clitheroe that had the problem. terminated Bolton 30L

 

[AlterEgo]

I hope the perpetrators were detained and charged.

What for?

Nobody's confirmed what the cause of the disruption was yet.

 

[yorksrob]

What for?

Nobody's confirmed what the cause of the disruption was yet.

in so far as the opening post mentioned "disruptive passengers" I would say for disrupting the train service.

 

[Andyh82]

It doesn't appear to be the same stock. The stock from 2E23 then formed the 2035 Leeds to Victoria I think so I guess the crew (guard, at least) step back a train and have a PNB at Leeds.

Intriguingly, 2M74 is now running as 5M74 with the empty stock from Victoria to Newton Heath also booked to run as 5M74.

That probably confirms it then, the first ECS was so the 2035 had some stock to run it, and the second one to get another unit back to Victoria, neither being the same stock or probably not the same driver.

 

[broadgage]

As others have stated, the guard might have been assaulted or the doors damaged.
Other possibilities include the train being soiled with vomit or human waste with the hope of cleaning it for the return working. Or a broken window, and doubt existing as to whether the train could run thus or not, the decision being not to run with passengers.
Or smashed internal lights, and the hope that these could be replaced in time.

Or even the police declaring a crime scene, the police might accept the train being moved empty, but would not want passengers admitted to disturb evidence.

 

[AlterEgo]

in so far as the opening post mentioned "disruptive passengers" I would say for disrupting the train service.

Passengers can be disruptive without committing any offence. The delay reason is a catch-all.

 

[northwichcat]

Both services were cancelled throughout at 1830 and tweeted by Northern as such.

The next working after those two is an ECS to Newton Heath at 2313

If it's a problem with a conductor (which only seems to be a suggestion) it could be:
1. A trainee driver was due to be on the service so it still needed to run for the driver to be trained.
2. The train had to be moved from the platform and there was no path for it to run to Newton Heath.
3. They hoped they could get a replacement conductor for the return working but couldn't.

 

[northwichcat]

Just noticed the 16:45 Clitheroe-Victoria was delayed by 25 minutes between Bromley Cross and Bolton and then terminated at Bolton 'due to disorder.' Could it be the guard off that service was supposed to work the Victoria-Leeds service and was stuck at Bolton so couldn't work it even if he/she hadn't been attacked?

 

[Jonfun]

Yep, blame the football fans :roll:

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I doubt he means specifically football fans - all sports have the same problem. Horse racing and rugby fans are just as bad.

 

[lejog]

Isn`t it possible this may have been something to do with FA cup weekend?

It was the 1645 ex Clitheroe that had the problem. terminated Bolton 30L

Yes, confused Man United supporters turned up a day early for their match in Blackburn:roll:

I doubt he means specifically football fans - all sports have the same problem. Horse racing and rugby fans are just as bad.

But do they have an FA cup weekend?

 

[T3P0]

It was the 1645 ex Clitheroe that had the problem. terminated Bolton 30L

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/15104062.Severe_delays_after_train_guard_attacked_by_two_men_on_Clitheroe_to_Manchester_service

A TRAIN guard has been left with facial injuries after being attacked by two men.The attack led to a rail service being terminated and severe delays on the line.The incident happened as the train was travelling from Clitheroe to Manchester Victoria on Saturday evening.

A British Transport Police spokesman, said: "Officers were called to Bromley Cross rail station following reports of a person assaulted....

 

[Bungle965]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...y_two_men_on_Clitheroe_to_Manchester_service/

Scum, utter scum.
Sam

 

[313103]

Surely part of this thread should appear in the Arriva North DOO thread, as part of the reason for introducing DOO is to eliminate trains being cancelled due to no Guard being available. At least for the supporters of DOO they have got another piece of ammunition in the war chest.

What sad days we live in, i hope the Guard wasn't badly injured.

 

[northwichcat]

Surely part of this thread should appear in the Arriva North DOO thread, as part of the reason for introducing DOO is to eliminate trains being cancelled due to no Guard being available.

Arriva have to plan to have a non-driving member of franchise staff on every service (whether it has a guard or not.) Of course if the non-driving member of franchise who is supposed to be on the service gets injured or takes ill then the franchise agreement doesn't say the service can run with just the driver but post-2019 they will have to ensure a wheelchair passenger can travel on any service without pre-booking which would mean a driver only service would only be able to call at staffed stations and there would need to be some way of ensuring station staff were able to meet the train to help off-load wheelchair passengers.

Plus if it's a non-Northern Connect service which is supposed to have a guard then it will still be cancelled if something happens to the guard.