Canadian train drivers

[John1974]

Any here or have experience working in Canada?
Have some questions about how to apply/conditions/pay...

 

[godfreycomplex]

It’s pretty unusual to be hired directly as a train driver (or Locomotive Engineer) into major Canadian firms, Canadian National & Canadian Pacific (the two largest freight carriers with crew based nationwide) require people to join as Conductors first and be promoted, as do GO Transit and many smaller railways. VIA Rail (AAIU), much like Eurostar in the UK, only take already qualified Locomotive Engineers from elsewhere.
On the metro side in Toronto you can be hired directly as a Subway Operator with the TTC, but the only possible way to apply is as a General Transit Operator, from which one could be streamed into Bus, Streetcar or Subway Operator. It is possible to move between different streams but that takes years to arrange, and as I understand it subway is the most sought after section of the Commission (although new hires have been assigned Subway straight away quite frequently in the past)
In Montréal you have to have been an STM bus driver for at least 5 years to have a sniff at the metro, and to be an STM bus driver you have to speak fluent French.
That’s all pretty negative I know, but on the positive side seniority lead in times for a Locomotive Engineer are anecdotally fairly short, so you could be on a course in a single figure number of years, perhaps even towards the lower end of that. Pay is typically around the $110,000 mark per year for a L/E, perhaps more. Conditions are (especially on the freight side) less than fantastic, oftentimes at the lower end of seniority (the railways in Canada usually operate on seniority, for reasons best known to themselves) engineers and conductors are on a 24 hour on call with 2 hours notice, which is obviously pretty grim. Lodge turns (overnight trips away) are endemic.
The other problem is without at least Permanent Resident card the major firms won’t look at you (though some smaller companies will). Once you’ve got that it’s a question of checking the job sites of the major companies and applying for vacancies. CN and CP in particular are hiring for conductors almost continuously so there isn’t an issue jobs wise (although it can be a problem finding a job in some sought after/low traffic locations, the Maritimes for instance)
Above all good luck, hope that helps

 

[Dundeeborn]

Hi John, I sent you a message.

 

[John1974]

It’s pretty unusual to be hired directly as a train driver (or Locomotive Engineer) into major Canadian firms, Canadian National & Canadian Pacific (the two largest freight carriers with crew based nationwide) require people to join as Conductors first and be promoted, as do GO Transit and many smaller railways. VIA Rail (AAIU), much like Eurostar in the UK, only take already qualified Locomotive Engineers from elsewhere.
On the metro side in Toronto you can be hired directly as a Subway Operator with the TTC, but the only possible way to apply is as a General Transit Operator, from which one could be streamed into Bus, Streetcar or Subway Operator. It is possible to move between different streams but that takes years to arrange, and as I understand it subway is the most sought after section of the Commission (although new hires have been assigned Subway straight away quite frequently in the past)
In Montréal you have to have been an STM bus driver for at least 5 years to have a sniff at the metro, and to be an STM bus driver you have to speak fluent French.
That’s all pretty negative I know, but on the positive side seniority lead in times for a Locomotive Engineer are anecdotally fairly short, so you could be on a course in a single figure number of years, perhaps even towards the lower end of that. Pay is typically around the $110,000 mark per year for a L/E, perhaps more. Conditions are (especially on the freight side) less than fantastic, oftentimes at the lower end of seniority (the railways in Canada usually operate on seniority, for reasons best known to themselves) engineers and conductors are on a 24 hour on call with 2 hours notice, which is obviously pretty grim. Lodge turns (overnight trips away) are endemic.
The other problem is without at least Permanent Resident card the major firms won’t look at you (though some smaller companies will). Once you’ve got that it’s a question of checking the job sites of the major companies and applying for vacancies. CN and CP in particular are hiring for conductors almost continuously so there isn’t an issue jobs wise (although it can be a problem finding a job in some sought after/low traffic locations, the Maritimes for instance)
Above all good luck, hope that helps

Thanks for your response godfreycomplex.
I have family in Toronto so hopefully getting permanent residence wouldn't be too hard. So you would have to start at conductor level first before applying for a train driving role first?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Thanks for your response godfreycomplex.
I have family in Toronto so hopefully getting permanent residence wouldn't be too hard. So you would have to start at conductor level first before applying for a train driving role first?

Yes. Minimum wait of 2 years at CN, not sure about elsewhere. Conductors on the freight side are on about $75k or so. For passenger work starting as a Customer Service Ambassador with Bombardier (GO Transit) is the quickest way in southern Ontario (they do similar things to a guard in the UK, they also do the doors but don’t give the right away as such), less pay than freight but far more regular hours.

 

[John1974]

Go transport is a possibility. So you apply via bombardier?Family live in oakville.
What do you do?

 

[tiptoptaff]

I'd take a look at Indeed for reviews of what it's like to work there. Wife and I contemplated an emigration to Canada and were put off by the job reviews.

The general consensus was that at CP/CN you'd earn a lot of money but would never be around to spend it. Very little protection and job security, very much first in first out. Once you'd got any sort of seniority that gave job security and regular hours you'd be promoted to engineer and lose it all, taking years to get it back. Canadian Conductors have recently gone on strike over pay, conditions and job security after over 1000 CP/CN staff were furloughed and left jobless.

As for getting immigration entry, footplate crew on both sides are considered by Canada as category B skilled workers and they have a requirement. You may get in the basis of being a qualified British driver if you could show that it was related to the fields and that a job would be waiting - especially in the more remote areas. There are crew depots in places with tiny populations and catchment areas that are hard to fill

 

[godfreycomplex]

Go transport is a possibility. So you apply via bombardier?Family live in oakville.
What do you do?

https://jobs.bombardier.com/mobile/...atorCustomer-Service-Ambassador-ON/599000200/
The main yard is at Willowbrook in Etobicoke (about half an hour from Oakville)
I’m a signaller in the UK and I was looking to move over at one point as well, but like tiptoptaff was put off with less than stellar reviews of the working environment at the major employers (there are far fewer signallers, or rail traffic controllers as they’re known, in Canada than the UK, and most of the jobs are in Alberta, which is, well...)

 

[tiptoptaff]

Some of the Indeed reviews were very good and put it out quite well. They'd publish the train lists a few days ahead - they know what trains were expected to run, which ones are regularly scheduled ones so will run and you'd know what train was yours or if you were what we'd call spare. So you had some idea. The regular ones (CP100 for example, one of their premier scheduled must-run-on-time-at-this-time trains) would be allocated to the more senior crews. and you'd go at that expected time.

The issues arise for the junior "over the road" crews when you get a low priority general manifest train scheduled to run at say 0730 so you'd go to bed expected to be called at 0530, and it gets delayed for one reason or another, or the boat is late, rains so it's not loaded and what turns in to getting up ready for an 0730 start turns in to a day of waiting and a 1930night shift when you're finally called.

Being away for several days isn't uncommon. You get mandatory rest periods but they're not as good as over here. Maximum 10ish hr working days but they could be step on the loco at 1300 and off again at 2300 in to lodge, having driven/conducted continually for that 10hours.

The safety culture is Britain in the 50s. You will get on and off moving vehicles. Split cars while moving. Fly, loose and hump shunt. Possibly by remote control locos if you're working in the yard.

But bya accounts yard conductor turns aren't bad because you'll know you're the 0600 yard man, until you're thinking great home by 1600 but at 1300 an unscheduled coal train rocks up and the forward conductor who was called blew out - off you go, 600+ miles away and in to lodge for three days....

 

[John1974]

Wouldn't go transit be different though as a passenger line?

 

[tiptoptaff]

It would certainly be more regular in shift pattern, but working conditions, rights and job security is pretty poor in the US and Canada. Kiss goodbye to 5/6 weeks holiday a year, be lucky if you got 5or6 days

 

[whoosh]

I wouldn't want to work on freight in North America. On call all the time.
Have a read from a Canadian Railroad Wife's perspective: http://lifeofarailroadwife.com/2017/06/02/railroad-employee-fatigue-its-a-real-thing/

Suburban railways - I'm guessing would probably be like the New York subway. New recruits start out on what's called an "extra" board. Basically, you go to work at the time you're told. Then, however long into your 8 hours, you get told to do an uncovered duty - you could've been there six hours before being given it, so you're at work for 14 hours that day. All paid, but you are going to end up tired.
As you gain seniority, you will be able to 'pick' a job for each day of the week, and the two Regular Days Off per week, that you'll then do for the next six months until the next pick. You won't have seniority for weekends off for years. The days of the week that Christmas or other holidays fall on will be popular amongst those senior to you too.

Bus driving in the USA is also usually on a seniority 'pick' system, with the most senior driver picking the regular days off they will have each week, and the duties they'll do on all their workdays for the rest of the week. (They'll work the week's work they've picked, with the two days off they've chosen, every week for six months). Then the next senior makes their pick, and so on. (Least senior able to pick [not on the "extra" board] probably ends up with no choice but late PMs with Tuesdays and Wednesdays off). I wouldn't be surprised if that system is what they do on street cars, buses and subways in Canada as well.

Of course if you start as a Conductor, gain seniority, maybe end up being able to pick regular duties, you end up at the bottom of the seniority pile again if you gain promotion to Driver/Engineer/Train Operator or whatever it's called.

 

[John1974]

It would certainly be more regular in shift pattern, but working conditions, rights and job security is pretty poor in the US and Canada. Kiss goodbye to 5/6 weeks holiday a year, be lucky if you got 5or6 days

That bad is it?

 

[Bucephalus]

A guy called Joe hooligan has some good YouTube videos about working on the railroad. Granted he's US but I think the railroad is about the same in Canada