can you be prosecuted for using a brit rail pass if you are a british citzen

[matt_world2004]

This will help settle a mess room debate

 

[AlterEgo]

No, because your citizenship is not relevant.

It is your habitual residency which matters.

 

[FenMan]

Purchase Restrictions: Pass holders must be non-UK residents. BritRail and its representatives may ask at any time for proof of foreign residency and reserve the right to confiscate the ticket or pass in such circumstances. The BritRail ticket is non-transferable and must only be used by the person or persons specified on the ticket.

See here:-
http://www.britrail.com/britrail-passes/eligibility-conditions-of-use/

So a UK citizen, who is non-resident as outlined above, can purchase and use a BritRail Pass.

 

[matt_world2004]

No, because your citizenship is not relevant.

It is your habitual residency which matters.

Well residency someome who lives in Britain.

One thing that has muddied the waters greatly is the visit Britain website specifies you cannot hold one if you are a british passport holder

1.) Not all British residents are British Passport holders
2.) A holder of a british passport may not be a British resident.

 

[FenMan]

A Pass must be validated before use. Quote:

"Passes are issued open dated and must be validated within six months from the date of issue and prior to the first use. To validate a rail pass, present it along with your passport to the Railway official at the station of departure. At this time, the first and the last day of validity of the pass as well as the passport number is entered and the passenger must sign the pass."

So, if the pass has been validated then the residency requirement should have been checked at that point.

 

[AndrewE]

A Pass must be validated before use. Quote:

"Passes are issued open dated and must be validated within six months from the date of issue and prior to the first use. To validate a rail pass, present it along with your passport to the Railway official at the station of departure. At this time, the first and the last day of validity of the pass as well as the passport number is entered and the passenger must sign the pass."

So, if the pass has been validated then the residency requirement should have been checked at that point.

This sounds like a classic situation for misunderstandings (& that's some understatement): Foreign-resident UK national buys ticket...

"Purchase Restrictions: Pass holders must be non-UK residents."

and presents passport as proof of identity, whereupon "Railway official at the station of departure" states that he thinks the rules say

[the visit Britain website specifies] you cannot hold one if you are a British passport holder

It's completely unacceptable. No wonder there are arguments in the mess-room. A copy of the actual (railway) T&C applying to the ticket is the only way to decide it.

 

[matt_world2004]

This sounds like a classic situation for misunderstandings (& that's some understatement): Foreign-resident UK national buys ticket... and presents passport as proof of identity, whereupon "Railway official at the station of departure" states that he thinks the rules say

It's completely unacceptable. No wonder there are arguments in the mess-room. A copy of the actual (railway) T&C applying to the ticket is the only way to decide it.

I work on buses , our employee rewards site offers us discounts on britrail passes

 

[yorkie]

I work on buses , our employee rewards site offers us discounts on britrail passes

Presumably employees are residents of the UK, so I'd imagine this must be intended for friends & family who are based abroad to visit?

 

[silverfoxcc]

Would a US driving licence showing an address be adequate?

 

[AlterEgo]

Would a US driving licence showing an address be adequate?

No, according to the TnCs stated above.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Would a US driving licence showing an address be adequate?

No, according to the TnCs stated above.

I would say yes - in combination with a passport. It's one way of showing residence outside of the UK.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's one of those blinkered situations where they assume all British citizens are resident here and all foreign citizens are not resident here.

I'm a foreign national but resident here. It'd be interesting to see if I could get away with a Britrail pass.

It's a bit of a moot point, though, as the Britrail sales website is blocked to UK IP addresses.

 

[najaB]

It's a bit of a moot point, though, as the Britrail sales website is blocked to UK IP addresses.

That is but a trifle to get past.

 

[Busaholic]

You can have a foreign passport and a British one as well. Who's to know about your British one so long as you don't accidentally present the wrong one?!

 

[matt_world2004]

It's one of those blinkered situations where they assume all British citizens are resident here and all foreign citizens are not resident here.

I'm a foreign national but resident here. It'd be interesting to see if I could get away with a Britrail pass.

It's a bit of a moot point, though, as the Britrail sales website is blocked to UK IP addresses.

The visit britain website sells them and they have not got a geolock

 

[Tetchytyke]

That is but a trifle to get past.

True enough, it is, although I'm guessing that using a UK registered debit or credit card might be similarly blocked (I've not tried).

 

[najaB]

True enough, it is, although I'm guessing that using a UK registered debit or credit card might be similarly blocked (I've not tried).

Again, virtual credit cards make that a non-issue.

 

[paddington]

Well residency someome who lives in Britain.

One thing that has muddied the waters greatly is the visit Britain website specifies you cannot hold one if you are a british passport holder

1.) Not all British residents are British Passport holders
2.) A holder of a british passport may not be a British resident.

3) Not all British passport holders are allowed to live in the UK!

 

[ian959]

Bought and used Britrail passes many times and never had an issue. I am a British Citizen and an Australian citizen. When traveling on the British passport to the UK the showing of my West Australian driver's licence has been accepted as evidence of foreign domicile for validation of the pass.

 

[cf111]

I hold dual nationality, one of them British, and I have used a Brit-Rail pass. I did get some funny looks from guards but it was purchased legitimately as I wasn't resident in Britain at the time. I used my Greek national ID card to validate the pass.

 

[Merseysider]

3) Not all British passport holders are allowed to live in the UK!

At risk of going off topic... but what could be a reason for this? (Other than being locked up in a foreign prison of course )

I thought a British passport entitled the bearer to unconditional residency?

 

[najaB]

I thought a British passport entitled the bearer to unconditional residency?

British subjects and British overseas territories citizens don't have automatic right of abode in the UK.

 

[FenMan]

British subjects and British overseas territories citizens don't have automatic right of abode in the UK.

Quite. Many Hong Kong residents for example.

 

[infobleep]

British subjects and British overseas territories citizens don't have automatic right of abode in the UK.

But would they hold a British passport? Would it not be a passport from their own country, who our Queen is head of.

 

[najaB]

But would they hold a British passport? Would it not be a passport from their own country, who our Queen is head of.

Their places of residence - e.g. Diego Garcia, Monserrat, Falklands Islands - aren't sovereign countries and don't issue passports.

 

[IanXC]

As a result of all that it's not uncommon to find a UK Visa in what, at first glace, appears to be a UK Passport.

 

[najaB]

As a result of all that it's not uncommon to find a UK Visa in what, at first glace, appears to be a UK Passport.

It is a UK passport, just the holder isn't a UK citizen.

 

[IanXC]

It is a UK passport, just the holder isn't a UK citizen.

Absolutely. In hindsight I should have expressed that somewhat better!

 

[paddington]

British subjects and British overseas territories citizens don't have automatic right of abode in the UK.

Quite. Many Hong Kong residents for example.

People connected solely with Hong Kong cannot be British subjects or British Overseas Territories citizens, but instead can be British Nationals (Overseas) if they applied to become one before the end of 1997.

BN(O)s who can prove they have no other citizenship can easily become British citizens by filling in a form.

Anyone who held British Overseas Territories citizenship on 21 May 2002 automatically became a British citizen on that date and thus received the automatic right of abode in the UK.

Anyone who has become a BOTC after that can easily become a British citizen by filling in a form, except if they are BOTCs solely connected with the Sovereign Base Areas on Cyprus. However, BOTCs from the SBAs are all citizens of Cyprus (since it was not possible to move there after Cypriot independence) who currently have the right to enter the UK in order to exercise EEA treaty rights.

Some British subjects are Irish citizens and therefore do have an automatic right of abode in the UK.

But would they hold a British passport? Would it not be a passport from their own country, who our Queen is head of.

Their places of residence - e.g. Diego Garcia, Monserrat, Falklands Islands - aren't sovereign countries and don't issue passports.

Nobody lives or is allowed to live on Diego Garcia. People born (or naturalised, if there were any) on Diego Garcia and the first generation of their descendants born outside the Chagos Archipelago became British citizens in 2002.

Montserrat, the Falkland Islands and the other British Overseas Territories do issue their own BOTC passports, although since about 2014, all BOTC passports are actually produced in the UK. As mentioned, almost all BOTC citizens are British citizens. This is especially true for the Falklands, whose British residents all became British citizens in 1983, and so the only BOT passports issued there would be those of newly naturalised migrants or other BOTCs (such as St Helena) and their children who don't want or can't get a normal British passport.

Apart from Bermudians who have easier access to the USA, there are no real advantages to using a BOTC passport as opposed to a normal British passport, and in the case of Gibraltar, BOTC and BC passports are equivalent.

 

[najaB]

Nobody lives or is allowed to live on Diego Garcia...

I know. I threw that one in there deliberately due to the ongoing demands from the islanders to be allowed to return.

I thought that the Falklands, etc. issued British passports just with 'British Subject' rather than 'British Citizen' in the nationality field?