Can ticket inspectors accuse you?

[dr_novell]

Can ticket inspectors accuse you of not having a valid ticket? I thought if they were not sure they would take your details and then send you a letter to say whether it was valid or not. If they were sure they would issue you a PFN? Is this correct?

Dr

 

[Panda]

You need to explain yourself a bit more - is this based on the routeing of the ticket, not showing a ticket when asked, a ticket held on something like Oyster???

 

[bb21]

Your question is meaningless. Anyone can accuse you of anything.

What happened?

 

[Pumbaa]

Those with PACE training can question you under caution, and ask about previous journeys. Those without can only deal with what is in front of them.

 

[fowler9]

Could I ask what PACE training is. I've seen posters with PACE on in my office although not in the particular section of the business where I work. I don't think anyone in my company would have anything to do with revenue protection (Although it is a very big group and I haven't been there that long).

 

[Pumbaa]

Police and Criminal Evidence Act (1984).

https://www.gov.uk/police-and-criminal-evidence-act-1984-pace-codes-of-practice

Generally, RPIs are PACE trained, RPAs (assistants) are not.

 

[47421]

How is your case coming along ? Is it an inspector on the bus you are thinking about or another one ? Remind us, which bus were you on and why did you think your train ticket was valid for travel on it?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Can ticket inspectors accuse you of not having a valid ticket?

Not having a valid ticket is a matter of fact (whether on a bus or a train).
A ticket Inspector is placed in that position to determine that fact.
Where they find that a passenger does not have a valid ticket, and therefore is in breach of the relevant Regulation, Laws and/or Byelaws, it is appropriate for that Inspector to investigate further and to gather enough information to enable their colleagues in Revenue Protection to pursue it further.

I thought if they were not sure they would take your details and then send you a letter to say whether it was valid or not. If they were sure they would issue you a PFN? Is this correct?

There is no reason for an Inspector to follow only one line of investigation and action.

I'm sure most professionals investigating crimes will consider a wide range of approaches and actions - it's never going to be possible to deduce backwards from a looking at a course of enquiry to establish whether the investigating officer's actions can accurately distinguish the actual crime.

How is your case coming along ? . . . .

This will be this thread : Confiscated rail-only season ticket used on bus (which originally was about Railcards until someone corrected the title).

 

[TEW]

Could I ask what PACE training is. I've seen posters with PACE on in my office although not in the particular section of the business where I work. I don't think anyone in my company would have anything to do with revenue protection (Although it is a very big group and I haven't been there that long).

As posted above PACE is the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, and the attached PACE Codes of Practice. It governs the conduct, mainly of the police, in the investigatory process. The main use for it in a railway context is that it lays down rules which must be followed when conducting interviews which will be used as evidence.

 

[yorkie]

If they were sure they would issue you a PFN?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Do you mean "If they were not sure..."?

They can report the matter for further investigation whether they are sure or not.

There is no obligation to issue a Penalty Fare under any circumstances; more that a Penalty Fare can be issued in certain circumstances.

 

[Clip]

I wonder if given the other thread that the OP has indeed been caught again doing something wrong, they have checked their details and found this out and have accused them of being a fare evader.

There was no conclusion to the other thread so this is also strange.

 

[fowler9]

Cheers for the info about PACE folks.

 

[bb21]

Without further input from the OP, I doubt we will get anywhere with this thread.

 

[dr_novell]

The incident happened as I coming into East Croydon station on Southern. The ticket inspector (looked like the train conductor) was asking to see tickets so I show her mine. She got her oyster card reader out and said “your ticket is not valid”. I said “I’m sure it is as I used it at Watford junction, Euston, Victoria and East Croydon. Then she started asking questions about where I got on any where I was going. She also copied down the number on the oyster card onto her pad. I asked why she thought it was not valid. Her reply was that “it doesn’t have a one on it”. She walked off.

When I got to East Croydon I asked for a full printout of the oyster card. It showed “ Travelcard/Std/Full/Adult/Zones 1 – 9 + Watford Jnt/01Mth” (£304). They also told me it was a valid ticket. When I got home I rang Southern and made a complaint about the ticket inspector. They said that they would pass the complaint to the ticket inspector’s manager and I will receive a letter within 28 days explaining the outcome of the complaint. 28 days came and went so I decided to call to find out what is happening. They said that the compliant that I had made had been closed and that they could not tell me anyone due to employment law. They told me that if I wanted to find out more information about the complaint I would have to get a lawyer.

Now with everything that has happened to me I’m thinking of suing for defamation.

Dr

 

[455driver]

Now with everything that has happened to me I’m thinking of suing for defamation.

So she (probably) made a mistake then!
On what grounds exactly are you going to sue them?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Now with everything that has happened to me I’m thinking of suing for defamation.

If that is your position, then I strongly advise you to present the matter for hearing by the expert in the field of defamation, Lord Justice Tugendhat. He is busy, but is always willing to hear from those who have been wronged.
Only today, he helped a litigant who wanted to put right some injustice that they felt they had suffered. They lost, of course, but Tugendhat LJ spoke out for them and managed to reduce the costs they would have to pay. Reduced from (as I recall) £80,650 to £ 80,300. A great day for the individual taking on a 'sense of injustice' - or not.

No one can say that Tugendhat LJ doesn't do as much as he can for the individual who has done wrong but who feels some nebulous sense of injustice. But there often isn't much that can be done. Those determined individuals keep a lot of us in work.

 

[bb21]

So basically it was nothing. People make mistakes.

Swallow your pride and let it go. What do you expect to get out of a court case?

As for defamation, please, don't make me laugh. If what you described qualified as defamation then our courts won't have any time left to deal with anything else.

 

[TEW]

Now with everything that has happened to me I’m thinking of suing for defamation.

The tort of defamation protects your reputation. As such damages would be calculated based on the damage your reputation suffered. I'm not sure exactly how your reputation has been damaged by the ticket inspector saying your ticket was invalid. Even if you won (which I would consider incredibly unlikely) you aren't going to receive any worthwhile compensation.

 

[Tetchytyke]

No one can say that Tugendhat LJ doesn't do as much as he can for the individual who has done wrong but who feels some nebulous sense of injustice.

He certainly did plenty for Ryan Giggs

Now with everything that has happened to me I’m thinking of suing for defamation.

Defamation is where someone casts aspersions on your character.

I'm not sure how this RPI made you look like an idiot, but you're doing a pretty good job of it by yourself...