Can rail staff travel first class when going to work?

[GD1982]

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[Stuart-h]

Ive done it before now. Had a standard ticket. Train manager had let me sit in 1st . Mind you i was in full oranges at the time.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

I was asked to move out of first class (I had a 1st ticket) on a Scotrail service from Queen Street to Inverness back in September 2021 as staff would be travelling in that section (Class 170) from Stirling. That was Covid related and I moved but annoyingly, first class at the front of the train was like an absolute oven as the air conditioning wasn't working! I ended up sitting in standard in the middle of the train and probably should've pursued a refund on the difference in ticket price but didn't. The train was practically empty and my fellow passengers including me were masked up so I didn't really see why I had to move...

 

[dk1]

Although we are allowed 1st class travel for being a driver & completing 20yrs service at my TOC and also anyone completing 100% attendance for any given previous year, it’s officially only for off duty use & obviously only when the fare paying public doesn’t require the seat. That goes without saying in my book.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Maybe he is starting a campaign to ban all mobile and tablet use in trains ?

Best not tell him that TOCs issue phones to staff....

 

[Spartacus]

Only if I'm working at the weekend, and only if I'm travelling by Transpennine and only because being a season ticket holder permits it at the weekend...

 

[Efini92]

Although we are allowed 1st class travel for being a driver & completing 20yrs service at my TOC and also anyone completing 100% attendance for any given previous year, it’s officially only for off duty use & obviously only when the fare paying public doesn’t require the seat. That goes without saying in my book.

Does it take 20 years to get first class travel at your place?

 

[dk1]

Does it take 20 years to get first class travel at your place?

Not if you have zero absence. It does if you want it regardless, but apart from managers it’s only an agreement with ASLEF for drivers. Doesn’t make much difference these days as only 1st class now is on most Intercity services between Norwich & Liverpool Street. That said I often just sit in standard anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2023 ==

To add to that. You don’t have to be a driver for 20 years. As long as you’ve had that many years service it doesn’t matter if you’ve only been in the driving grade a week.

 

[43066]

Not if you have zero absence. It does if you want it regardless, but apart from managers it’s only an agreement with ASLEF for drivers. Doesn’t make much difference these days as only 1st class now is on most Intercity services between Norwich & Liverpool Street. That said I often just sit in standard anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2023 ==

To add to that. You don’t have to be a driver for 20 years. As long as you’ve had that many years service it doesn’t matter if you’ve only been in the driving grade a week.

Not exactly a big perk is it given that (if where you are is anything like where I am) you’ll be able to sit there anyway 99.9% of the time.

I bet you’d rather get paid a bit more instead .

 

[dk1]

Not exactly a big perk is it given that (if where you are is anything like where I am) you’ll be able to sit there anyway 99.9% of the time.

I bet you’d rather get paid a bit more instead .

It’s rubbish really & as you say we’d be able to sit there anyway most of the time. It’s not something I’ve ever been particularly bothered about. I reckon it was some sort of sweetener offered at a distant pay deal in days gone by.

 

[Taunton]

The commercial issue with treating first class as a staff area/place for favoured friends/etc is that it impacts on those who have actually paid for the facility, who find that instead of having paid more for a better and quieter environment it ends up like this. Now you can take the attitude "You paid for one seat, there's one, now shut up" about this, but such passengers are then equally likely to decide with their wallets and not pay the high price again.

Some airlines have found this to their cost, that giving away freebie first class upgrades to significant numbers leads to all sorts of issues, seatmates who yatter on and on about how they got a free upgrade, even the refreshments running out before they get to you, and it acts as a disincentive

 

[dk1]

The commercial issue with treating first class as a staff area/place for favoured friends/etc is that it impacts on those who have actually paid for the facility, who find that instead of having paid more for a better and quieter environment it ends up like this. Now you can take the attitude "You paid for one seat, there's one, now shut up" about this, but such passengers are then equally likely to decide with their wallets and not pay the high price again.

Some airlines have found this to their cost, that giving away freebie first class upgrades to significant numbers leads to all sorts of issues, seatmates who yatter on and on about how they got a free upgrade, even the refreshments running out before they get to you, and it acts as a disincentive

Some of us are far more tactful. For example on other train operators where the guard hasn’t charged me for a weekend upgrade when seeing I have BR boxes I always discreetly thank them & would never talk loudly about such things so as other passengers over hear.

 

[Llanigraham]

Even as a meer signaller, when staff have seen my ID, which was conveniently in the same wallet as my tickets, they have offered me the chance to travel in First. The one thing I have always refused in those situations is the full menu option, but have accepted a soft drink or coffee and a snack.

 

[43066]

who find that instead of having paid more for a better and quieter environment it ends up like this.

Some airlines have found this to their cost, that giving away freebie first class upgrades to significant numbers leads to all sorts of issues, seatmates who yatter on and on about how they got a free upgrade, even the refreshments running out before they get to you, and it acts as a disincentive

So essentially no different to when first class happens to be busy with regular punters.

Plus (where I am) it’s rare to travel “pass”, even rarer to do so with other staff, so it’s pretty unlikely anyone is going to encounter a compartment full of train crew!

 

[All Line Rover]

Not exactly a big perk is it given that (if where you are is anything like where I am) you’ll be able to sit there anyway 99.9% of the time.

A little bit of employer fraud here, a little bit of employer fraud there. What's that between friends, eh? No different from when a company supplies home working equipment on the condition it is returned when employment ends; and, on ending employment, a friendly post room operator says it's fine to keep the equipment. "Nobody will ask about it." Oh, wait a minute...

Claiming that guards have discretion to authorise travel with an invalid (or no) ticket is a red herring. Rail staff are fully aware of their company's staff travel policies. They are no more entitled to attempt to travel with an invalid/no ticket, than a passenger is entitled to attempt to travel without a ticket and ask a guard to "use their discretion". Equally, guards must exercise their discretion reasonably. Blatantly and consistently flouting an employer's written policies is not a reasonable exercise of discretion.

Bankers can be equally dishonest but at least they have a reputation for it. Many rail staff have the added cheek of pretending to be saints and treating passengers as fraudsters when they make even innocent mistakes.

 

[Llanigraham]

A little bit of employer fraud here, a little bit of employer fraud there. What's that between friends, eh? No different from when a company supplies home working equipment on the condition it is returned when employment ends; and, on ending employment, a friendly post room operator says it's fine to keep the equipment. "Nobody will ask about it." Oh, wait a minute...

Claiming that guards have discretion to authorise travel with an invalid (or no) ticket is a red herring. Rail staff are fully aware of their company's staff travel policies. They are no more entitled to attempt to travel with an invalid/no ticket, than a passenger is entitled to attempt to travel without a ticket and ask a guard to "use their discretion". Equally, guards must exercise their discretion reasonably. Blatantly and consistently flouting an employer's written policies is not a reasonable exercise of discretion.

Bankers can be equally dishonest but at least they have a reputation for it. Many rail staff have the added cheek of pretending to be saints and treating passengers as fraudsters when they make even innocent mistakes.

If one follows that it's logical conclusion it would therefore also be "illegal" for a Guard to up-grade any other passenger to First, as they do on occasions. I think yuu need to be careful what you wish for.

 

[Edsmith]

I've seen a few groups of Southeastern staff treating first class as their own mess room although it doesn't matter anymore as it's all standard class now.

 

[godfreycomplex]

A little bit of employer fraud here, a little bit of employer fraud there. What's that between friends, eh? No different from when a company supplies home working equipment on the condition it is returned when employment ends; and, on ending employment, a friendly post room operator says it's fine to keep the equipment. "Nobody will ask about it." Oh, wait a minute...

Claiming that guards have discretion to authorise travel with an invalid (or no) ticket is a red herring. Rail staff are fully aware of their company's staff travel policies. They are no more entitled to attempt to travel with an invalid/no ticket, than a passenger is entitled to attempt to travel without a ticket and ask a guard to "use their discretion". Equally, guards must exercise their discretion reasonably. Blatantly and consistently flouting an employer's written policies is not a reasonable exercise of discretion.

Bankers can be equally dishonest but at least they have a reputation for it. Many rail staff have the added cheek of pretending to be saints and treating passengers as fraudsters when they make even innocent mistakes.

I’m afraid I don’t particularly understand your beef. You expect rail staff to follow rules absolutely rigorously when it comes to other staff but not when it comes to passengers? Or, to put it another way, for all staff to treat one group of human beings less favourably than another, for no readily stated reason? And, conversely, to treat another group of human beings more favourably than another, for no readily stated reason?

Ain’t happening chief, sorry. Not how most human brains work

 

[LowLevel]

A little bit of employer fraud here, a little bit of employer fraud there. What's that between friends, eh? No different from when a company supplies home working equipment on the condition it is returned when employment ends; and, on ending employment, a friendly post room operator says it's fine to keep the equipment. "Nobody will ask about it." Oh, wait a minute...

Claiming that guards have discretion to authorise travel with an invalid (or no) ticket is a red herring. Rail staff are fully aware of their company's staff travel policies. They are no more entitled to attempt to travel with an invalid/no ticket, than a passenger is entitled to attempt to travel without a ticket and ask a guard to "use their discretion". Equally, guards must exercise their discretion reasonably. Blatantly and consistently flouting an employer's written policies is not a reasonable exercise of discretion.

Bankers can be equally dishonest but at least they have a reputation for it. Many rail staff have the added cheek of pretending to be saints and treating passengers as fraudsters when they make even innocent mistakes.

Given that pushing the boundaries of travel facilities is endemic in the industry right up to the top levels I doubt you're going to get much interest in your argument, particularly given that sitting in a different coloured seat in a train is nothing like equivalent to keeping hold of a laptop. Our own train crew do in fact have an entitlement to sit in seats in first class on duty as it happens, they're allowed to cook meals in the kitchen and consume them there.

Personally I don't usually travel in first class for residential or duty travel anyway. I do enjoy some legitimate first class facilities as a perk of employment and I like to take advantage of them.

Occasionally I do get people ask for a free ride as it happens, and occasionally I even say yes *shrug* you never know when you might be in a hole in life and need some sympathy and help yourself.

 

[Ladder23]

Why do you regard a phone call as a offence I am confused, I’ve clearly misunderstood ?

 

[CFRAIL]

I'd rather staff occupy 1st class areas so that I know where they are if I need a helping hand. Not to mention the times I've instructed others to sit there on busier services