Can i settle after making a statuatory declaration?

[fish2002]

Hi all,

I received a "further steps" notice stating that I owed a fine of approximately £500 to be paid within seven days. After doing some digging, i found out it was due to a fare evasion. I remember getting a fine for not having a railcard on LNER, but was under immense stress at the time and forgot to pay it. I moved addresses and this is the first time hearing about the fine, since then.

I've called up the number written on my further steps notice, and was advised to make a statuatory declaration as i was unaware that the case went to court. I have now been told than in the next 3 months, i will be required to show up to court to make my declaration, (i initially thought this was the actual court case but I guess i read it wrong).

Anyway, I completely accept that i was an idiot for not paying the fine. i've since reflected and am willing to accept the financial hit. The problem i have is that i have read about people in similar situations to me, where they have said that it has shown up on their dbs. I plan to work in banking and really don't want anything on my record making things difficult.

I dont think theres any chance of me winning this case, but what steps can i take to try and get an out of court settlement with LNER? Would anyone recommend getting a solicitor? What should my plan be from this point on?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Hi all,

I received a "further steps" notice stating that I owed a fine of approximately £500 to be paid within seven days. After doing some digging, i found out it was due to a fare evasion. I remember getting a fine for not having a railcard on LNER, but was under immense stress at the time and forgot to pay it. I moved addresses and this is the first time hearing about the fine, since then.

I've called up the number written on my further steps notice, and was advised to make a statuatory declaration as i was unaware that the case went to court. I have now been told than in the next 3 months, i will be required to show up to court to make my declaration, (i initially thought this was the actual court case but I guess i read it wrong).

Anyway, I completely accept that i was an idiot for not paying the fine. i've since reflected and am willing to accept the financial hit. The problem i have is that i have read about people in similar situations to me, where they have said that it has shown up on their dbs. I plan to work in banking and really don't want anything on my record making things difficult.

I dont think theres any chance of me winning this case, but what steps can i take to try and get an out of court settlement with LNER? Would anyone recommend getting a solicitor? What should my plan be from this point on?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure what that bold bit means. If you didn't know about the court case which ended up with a fine being imposed, how could you have paid it? You can't pay something you know nothing about! Or do you mean you were issued with a penalty fare by the rail company, because you didn't have a railcard (or were told you could be prosecuted for not having the right ticket, but offered an out-of-court settlement in order to avoid going to court and being fined), and it's this payment to the rail company that you didn't pay? [Payments to the rail company aren't actually a fine, even if they feel like it, and don't mean a criminal record - "a fine" only comes into play if a court finds you guilty or you go to court and plead guilty.]

"Unwinding" a court case which you genuinely didn't know about - by a statutory declaration - has strict time limits after you find out about the case; so are you sure the three months you mention aren't the estimated timescale for a hearing to take place once the earlier hearing is annulled? I suspect you have to make the declaration much sooner than that - it can be done by getting the statement witnessed by a solicitor for a low fee, without going to court.

Once that's happened, there's the problem of persuading LNER to settle without going to court; they might be reluctant if they've already offered and you didn't take them up on it (you say you did get the financial offer from LNER, but didn't deal with it, even though you didn't know details of the subsequent court case). Others here might have a better idea of your chances of getting LNER to offer you a second chance to avoid court. I imagine you'll need to grovel a bit.

People are more able to give you advice if you upload here - with the identifying details redacted of course - all your original paperwork from LNER that you didn't deal with at the time (and stuff from the court too), since it's not obvious what LNER were offering/demanding initially.

Going back to the literal question you ask in the title of the thread - in principle, yes, otherwise there might not be much point in undoing a court case if it will just re-run with the same result. But you might have your work cut out in this case.

 

[fish2002]

I'm not sure what that bold bit means. If you didn't know about the court case which ended up with a fine being imposed, how could you have paid it? You can't pay something you know nothing about! Or do you mean you were issued with a penalty fare by the rail company, because you didn't have a railcard (or were told you could be prosecuted for not having the right ticket, but offered an out-of-court settlement in order to avoid going to court and being fined), and it's this payment to the rail company that you didn't pay? [Payments to the rail company aren't actually a fine, even if they feel like it, and don't mean a criminal record - "a fine" only comes into play if a court finds you guilty or you go to court and plead guilty.]

"Unwinding" a court case which you genuinely didn't know about - by a statutory declaration - has strict time limits after you find out about the case; so are you sure the three months you mention aren't the estimated timescale for a hearing to take place once the earlier hearing is annulled? I suspect you have to make the declaration much sooner than that - it can be done by getting the statement witnessed by a solicitor for a low fee, without going to court.

Once that's happened, there's the problem of persuading LNER to settle without going to court; they might be reluctant if they've already offered and you didn't take them up on it (you say you did get the financial offer from LNER, but didn't deal with it, even though you didn't know details of the subsequent court case). Others here might have a better idea of your chances of getting LNER to offer you a second chance to avoid court. I imagine you'll need to grovel a bit.

People are more able to give you advice if you upload here - with the identifying details redacted of course - all your original paperwork from LNER that you didn't deal with at the time (and stuff from the court too), since it's not obvious what LNER were offering/demanding initially.

Going back to the literal question you ask in the title of the thread - in principle, yes, otherwise there might not be much point in undoing a court case if it will just re-run with the same result. But you might have your work cut out in this case.

the bold bit says i accept that i was silly to not have paid the fine.

But yes, your correct, it was a penalty fare, my mistake.

With regards to the statuatory declaration. I found out about the existence of a court case through a further steps notice. i've attached a picture. A few days after i read the letter i made an enquiry and was advised to make a call to another number and say"stat dec", after i told them that the first time hearing this matter was through this letter. I called that number and was asked things like whether i would like to do a statutory declaration amd whether understand that if im found out to be lying it counts at perjury etc, all the usual stuff, what days i'm unavailable in the next 3 months and a few other things.

I have a message from HMCTS saying "Single Justice service: We have referred you to make a statutory declaration with bexley magistrates court in respect of the London and north east railway prosecution against you..." There's more but it essentially says i'll be contacted within the next 3 months.

I haven't actually seen any of the letters as i haven't been at my old address for a good 7 or 8 months. This all happened in the past week or so, so i still haven't gotten around to getting those letters. I'm not sure who i'd have to contact to actually check the details of my case.

Would you say it's better for me to reach out to LNER at this point, or wait for the statutory declaration to go through? It's all very new to me and confusing, not sure how to proceed.

Anyways, thanks a lot for responding. Really appreciate it!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think you should get in touch with LNER sooner rather than later. You will need their co-operation to agree to settle out of court. So write to them explaining that you are looking to make a statutory declaration and what the court has told you, and asking of it would be possible to arrange to settle out of court.

 

[fish2002]

I think you should get in touch with LNER sooner rather than later. You will need their co-operation to agree to settle out of court. So write to them explaining that you are looking to make a statutory declaration and what the court has told you, and asking of it would be possible to arrange to settle out of court.

Alright, thanks for the advice i'll start drafting a letter. If i write a letter explaining my situation, wouldn't it just be an admission of guilt that they can use in court? Or am i thinking too much?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Alright, thanks for the advice i'll start drafting a letter. If i write a letter explaining my situation, wouldn't it just be an admission of guilt that they can use in court? Or am i thinking too much?

I think, as you say, that you are overthinking it. Are you guilty of the offence? If so, then you would presumably plead guilty at court. So there'd be no need for the railway to use your words against you.

If you're not guilty of the offence, then you shouldn't be looking to settle out of court: instead, you should be looking to persuade the railway of your innocence.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If a penalty fare was involved it wasn't LNER

 

[island]

The Statutory declaration won't just "go through", you have to actually make it. The court will give you an appointment to do so and you must attend in person with ID.

If the court and/or LNER do not have your current address it is essential that you notify them of it.

When you go to court to make your statutory declaration, you will then be asked to plead guilty or not guilty to the offence you were charged with. If you have by then come to an agreement with LNER to make a payment to settle the matter out of court, you would plead not guilty. The case will then be adjourned for a few weeks for both sides to attend, during which time you will make the payment, LNER will drop the case, and you will be done.

I think, as you say, that you are overthinking it. Are you guilty of the offence? If so, then you would presumably plead guilty at court.

The OP has indicated that they do not wish to have a criminal record, which pleading guilty would give them.

One other thing from above:

Or do you mean you were issued with a penalty fare by the rail company, because you didn't have a railcard

But yes, your correct, it was a penalty fare, my mistake.

LNER does not issue penalty fares.

 

[MotCO]

If you make a Statutory Declaration, you have 21 days in which to make it after you were aware of the Court case. It is usually recommended that you do the SD at a solicitors, rather than at the Court [edit, although I bow to @island 's greater knowledge]. Solicitors fees are around £10 to process the SD, provided you complete it yourself; if the solicitor drafts it on your behalf, they will charge you a further fee.

 

[pedr]

Until you make a statutory declaration (in person by completing and signing a form countersigned by an authorised person) you are a person who has been convicted of the offence. So if there are specific reasons why you need to inform someone of that, you probably should do - with all of the context.

Most railway offences don’t show on criminal records checks, but they are still criminal convictions.

It is, or should be, possible to make a statutory declaration before a solicitor without needing a magistrates’ court appointment and then deliver the declaration to the court concerned.

 

[island]

If you make a Statutory Declaration, you have 21 days in which to make it after you were aware of the Court case.

This is indeed what the law says, though in practice, due to courts being busy/underresourced/bit of both, they are issuing people with appointments past that time limit. The court has the power to extend the limit and seems to be doing so. It appears they are putting enforcement of collection orders on hold once a request to make an SD has occurred.

It is usually recommended that you do the SD at a solicitors, rather than at the Court [edit, although I bow to @island 's greater knowledge].

I have written what I have written because the OP stated they had started the process in the court, so therefore customised my points accordingly. It is correct to say that making the SD via a solicitor can be advantageous in that if you do it in court you will be asked to plead guilty or not guilty right away, but having started down one route it’s advisable the OP not try to flip to the other.

Solicitors fees are around £10 to process the SD, provided you complete it yourself; if the solicitor drafts it on your behalf, they will charge you a further fee.

Also correct.

 

[fish2002]

Thank you all for your replies,

If a penalty fare was involved it wasn't LNER

it was London and North East Railway, so LNER. i dont think it was a fare, i think the inspector printed out an invoice for a full priced ticket with details on how to pay.

I received an email from South London Mc with a form in which i fill out some blanks, name dob etc and have to post within 28 days. Its currently been 18 days since i received the email. I'm assuming they have to process it and eventually I have to appear in court where I should sign the form i filled out. Im ready to send it off, but i'm just unsure about the extra steps.

The Statutory declaration won't just "go through", you have to actually make it. The court will give you an appointment to do so and you must attend in person with ID.

If the court and/or LNER do not have your current address it is essential that you notify them of it.

When you go to court to make your statutory declaration, you will then be asked to plead guilty or not guilty to the offence you were charged with. If you have by then come to an agreement with LNER to make a payment to settle the matter out of court, you would plead not guilty. The case will then be adjourned for a few weeks for both sides to attend, during which time you will make the payment, LNER will drop the case, and you will be done.


The OP has indicated that they do not wish to have a criminal record, which pleading guilty would give them.

One other thing from above:



LNER does not issue penalty fares.

Am i supposed to contact LNER first, get a confirmation of an out of court settlement, before making the statutory declaration?

Another concern I have is whether I should contact a solicitor. I have drafted a letter explaining my circumstances but am unsure whether it is something LNER will bother reading. I'm assuming a solicitor would have a better way of contacting LNER and getting an answer, but I am unsure how much the fees a solicitor would charge and whether I can afford it. I've never had to deal with solicitors so am unsure.

I was wondering whether someone could go over my letter, mainly just for reassurance.

Again, many thanks for the replies

 

[Hadders]

There are a couple of things here:

A Statutory Declaration is used where you were unaware of court proceedings against you. If the SD is accepted by the court then the conviction is expunged and the case is re-heard again. The difference being that you will know about it this time so can prepare your defence etc.

What you want here isn't for the case to be re-heard, you want to get LNER to agree to an our of court settlement before the case is re-heard. To do this you need to actively engage with LNER Prosecutions Department and see if they would be willing to agree to settle out of court. If the aren't then there's little point in making the SD other than perhaps to reduce the level of the fine.

We had a similar case on here recently but about GWR.

Bought a ticket with an expired railcard and then changed address

Hello i need help please Last year i bought a ticket with an expired railcard. i gave my address but i left that address a few weeks later so i believe the fine was sent to that address. I recently got my dbs and saw the fine case has been taken to the Magistrates court. However, i didn’t know...

www.railforums.co.uk

Time is most definitely of the essence. I would contact LNER by email and follow up with a phone call if you can track down a number for them.

Please do pop a draft of your letter in here and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Enthusiast]

If the SD is accepted by the court...

An SD is neither accepted nor denied by a court. If they agree to hear it (which they must do if it is made with 21 days of learning of the conviction, or may do, at their discretion, beyond that date) they simply hear it. It is not an inquisitorial process and the person(s) hearing it cannot enquire into its veracity. The only decision a court would make is whether or not to hear it and if it is out of time only because the court could not accommodate it within 21 days, they would almost certainly do so. They are not enquiring into whether or not the declaration is true, but only witnessing the declaration.

 

[Haywain]

it was London and North East Railway, so LNER. i dont think it was a fare, i think the inspector printed out an invoice for a full priced ticket with details on how to pay

In which case it was an Unpaid Fares Notice, which is simply an invoice for the ticket price. If you had paid it that would have been the end of the matter. But now you need to prioritise getting in contact with LNER to see if they will settle the matter outside of court once an SD has been granted.

 

[fish2002]

There are a couple of things here:

A Statutory Declaration is used where you were unaware of court proceedings against you. If the SD is accepted by the court then the conviction is expunged and the case is re-heard again. The difference being that you will know about it this time so can prepare your defence etc.

What you want here isn't for the case to be re-heard, you want to get LNER to agree to an our of court settlement before the case is re-heard. To do this you need to actively engage with LNER Prosecutions Department and see if they would be willing to agree to settle out of court. If the aren't then there's little point in making the SD other than perhaps to reduce the level of the fine.

We had a similar case on here recently but about GWR.

Bought a ticket with an expired railcard and then changed address

Hello i need help please Last year i bought a ticket with an expired railcard. i gave my address but i left that address a few weeks later so i believe the fine was sent to that address. I recently got my dbs and saw the fine case has been taken to the Magistrates court. However, i didn’t know...

www.railforums.co.uk

Time is most definitely of the essence. I would contact LNER by email and follow up with a phone call if you can track down a number for them.

Please do pop a draft of your letter in here and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thanks for your reply, the case you sent is very helpful.

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to address a matter concerning an outstanding train fare that has recently come to my attention. The case in question pertains to a fare evasion incident when I boarded a train without a valid railcard, for which I was subsequently issued an invoice for the full-priced rail ticket by the ticket inspector, which I did not end up paying.

I want to begin by acknowledging the gravity of my actions on that day and the importance of paying train fares. It was wrong of me to board the train without a valid railcard, and I deeply regret this lapse in judgment. I understand that adherence to fare regulations is essential for the proper functioning of the rail system, as it ensures fair and equal access to transportation for all passengers. My failure to pay the appropriate fare was an unfortunate mistake that I wish to rectify.

At the time of the incident, I was facing severe financial hardship, unemployment, and immense stress, which made it challenging to cover even basic living expenses such as rent and food. I was reliant on Universal Credit for a portion of that period, which, while it helped with my essential needs, left me with limited resources. My financial difficulties were exacerbated by my decision to drop out of university and the contractual obligations of student accommodation without receiving student finance support. Due to these circumstances, the train fare incident unfortunately fell off my radar.

As my financial situation continued to deteriorate, I ultimately moved to a different address with my parents to reduce living costs. During this transition, I missed any further communication regarding the train fare issue, and I was unaware that the case had proceeded to court. It was only recently that I received a “Further Steps Notice” claiming I had to pay a fine of around £500.

I want to express my sincere regret for the oversight and assure you that my financial situation has improved significantly since then. I now have stable employment with promising prospects, which allows me to meet my financial responsibilities. I understand the importance of upholding the law and paying train fares to support the continued operation of our public transportation system. I am committed to resolving this matter amicably,

I humbly request the opportunity to settle this case outside of court, in a manner that respects your time and efforts invested in this matter. My intention is to reach a resolution that is equitable for all parties involved. I sincerely hope to avoid any unnecessary complications, such as the implications of a mark on my record or DBS, stemming from this naïve mistake.

I look forward to your response, and I am open to discussing the terms and conditions for settling this matter in a way that is fair and reasonable for both parties.

 

[John R]

Was this written using ChatGPT by any chance? The opening sentence is a dead giveaway, and is a completely inappropriate way to start such correspondence. The reader of it will know that too, and is unlikely to be impressed.

Whether it is or isn’t, it’s far too long and has too much irrelevant unnecessary detail and duplication. Also, whilst the language of a response should be relatively formal, some of the language used isn’t really appropriate either, eg “I humbly request…”.

 

[alholmes]

This letter needs some work. Remember, as far as LNER are concerned, they’ve already obtained a court conviction against you so the matter is closed.

You need to explain that your intention is to obtain an SD (and the reason why), and request that you then be allowed to settle directly with them out of court.

Other things:
- Don’t give the the sob story about financial hardship.
- Don’t open the letter with ‘I hope this letter finds you well’
- Don’t use AI to write the letter for you.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

- Don’t use AI to write the letter for you.

I wouldn’t go quite this far. The structure of the letter is OK because it is in a logical order, so AI has been quite useful there (if you’ve used it!). But as several people have said, it’s badly overwritten.

So I would suggest
- keep the order of paragraphs, but
- at the beginning add an explanation of why you are writing (i.e. you have been prosecuted without your knowledge: you have now made a statutory declaration which will allow the case to be reheard: you are writing to ask if LNER would be willing to now settle the matter out of court)
- delete the paragraphs as people have suggested
- simplify the language of what’s left. You can do this - looking at your original post, each sentence and paragraph (which I think is written in your own style) makes perfect sense. So read each paragraph and rewrite it in your own words.

You do need to be fairly formal but you don’t need to be grand. The most important thing is that you’re clear about what you’re saying, because if the railway don’t know what you want, they won’t be able to help you.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for your reply, the case you sent is very helpful.

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to address a matter concerning an outstanding train fare that has recently come to my attention. The case in question pertains to a fare evasion incident when I boarded a train without a valid railcard, for which I was subsequently issued an invoice for the full-priced rail ticket by the ticket inspector, which I did not end up paying.

I want to begin by acknowledging the gravity of my actions on that day and the importance of paying train fares. It was wrong of me to board the train without a valid railcard, and I deeply regret this lapse in judgment. I understand that adherence to fare regulations is essential for the proper functioning of the rail system, as it ensures fair and equal access to transportation for all passengers. My failure to pay the appropriate fare was an unfortunate mistake that I wish to rectify.

At the time of the incident, I was facing severe financial hardship, unemployment, and immense stress, which made it challenging to cover even basic living expenses such as rent and food. I was reliant on Universal Credit for a portion of that period, which, while it helped with my essential needs, left me with limited resources. My financial difficulties were exacerbated by my decision to drop out of university and the contractual obligations of student accommodation without receiving student finance support. Due to these circumstances, the train fare incident unfortunately fell off my radar.

As my financial situation continued to deteriorate, I ultimately moved to a different address with my parents to reduce living costs. During this transition, I missed any further communication regarding the train fare issue, and I was unaware that the case had proceeded to court. It was only recently that I received a “Further Steps Notice” claiming I had to pay a fine of around £500.

I want to express my sincere regret for the oversight and assure you that my financial situation has improved significantly since then. I now have stable employment with promising prospects, which allows me to meet my financial responsibilities. I understand the importance of upholding the law and paying train fares to support the continued operation of our public transportation system. I am committed to resolving this matter amicably,

I humbly request the opportunity to settle this case outside of court, in a manner that respects your time and efforts invested in this matter. My intention is to reach a resolution that is equitable for all parties involved. I sincerely hope to avoid any unnecessary complications, such as the implications of a mark on my record or DBS, stemming from this naïve mistake.

I look forward to your response, and I am open to discussing the terms and conditions for settling this matter in a way that is fair and reasonable for both parties.

You need to actually write the letter yourself. AI will give you a structure but this reads dreadfully. Cut it down by about 50%; this isn’t how people write letters in 2023. No need for a diaereses on naive either, that’s generally fallen out of use and is considered archaic in the UK.

 

[fish2002]

I wouldn’t go quite this far. The structure of the letter is OK because it is in a logical order, so AI has been quite useful there (if you’ve used it!). But as several people have said, it’s badly overwritten.

So I would suggest
- keep the order of paragraphs, but
- at the beginning add an explanation of why you are writing (i.e. you have been prosecuted without your knowledge: you have now made a statutory declaration which will allow the case to be reheard: you are writing to ask if LNER would be willing to now settle the matter out of court)
- delete the paragraphs as people have suggested
- simplify the language of what’s left. You can do this - looking at your original post, each sentence and paragraph (which I think is written in your own style) makes perfect sense. So read each paragraph and rewrite it in your own words.

You do need to be fairly formal but you don’t need to be grand. The most important thing is that you’re clear about what you’re saying, because if the railway don’t know what you want, they won’t be able to help you.

You need to actually write the letter yourself. AI will give you a structure but this reads dreadfully. Cut it down by about 50%; this isn’t how people write letters in 2023. No need for a diaereses on naive either, that’s generally fallen out of use and is considered archaic in the UK.

Alright, thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Hadders]

The letter needs major re-working. Forget all the excuses, you need to concentrate on the facts which are you were convicted without your knowledge and if you submit a Statutory Declaration will LNER be willing to offer an out of court settlement.