Campaign to restore passenger services on the Middlewich Link Line

[Jack Hay]

There's no reason why Northwich shouldn't get the platform heights adjusted (by putting a 'hump' along the whole of the platform like has been done at some Greater Manchester stations) or get a new footbridge with lifts like has been done at Altrincham station (and others) regardless of whether the Middlewich branch reopens to passengers. The railways are supposed to be improving accessibility but there's a lack of evidence of that at most stations in Cheshire. Given the barrow crossing is considered out-of-bounds unless passengers are accompanied by a staff member I'd suggest a new footbridge with lifts must be installed, unless Northern staff the station from first to last train every day.

Hi jcollins, I was thinking about the width of the P2/3 island rather than the height of it when I mentioned current standards. Do you have any information about that? Island platforms need to be wider than single face ones, I understand. The island also looks narrow for installation of Altrincham-style lifts. But this is speculation; whether it's ever been measured, I don't know! The barrow crossing is worse than out-of-bounds - it was removed a few years ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hi jcollins, I was thinking about the width of the P2/3 island rather than the height of it when I mentioned current standards. Do you have any information about that? Island platforms need to be wider than single face ones, I understand. The island also looks narrow for installation of Altrincham-style lifts. But this is speculation; whether it's ever been measured, I don't know! The barrow crossing is worse than out-of-bounds - it was removed a few years ago.

As a matter of interest, talking of island platforms, how does the Salford Crescent island platform compare in terms of platform width specification?

 

[northwichcat]

As a matter of interest, talking of island platforms, how does the Salford Crescent island platform compare in terms of platform width specification?

I was thinking of P13/14 at Piccadilly as well - while they are significantly wider the buildings on the platform restrict the amount of usable width.

 

[Altfish]

It was also supposed to be linked to a development in the public car park behind platform 4 (not the railway car park) which explains why there's a section of metal fence which could easily be removed, opposed to a proper wall.

A development that has been promised for years but doesn't seem to be going anywhere fast.

 

[Altfish]

Regarding the width of the island platform at Northwich.
In my opinion, although it'll need trackwork changes, it would be best to use the existing platforms for any Middlewich/Sandbach services. Get rid of the third and fourth tracks behind the westbound platform. The platform can then be relatively easily widened if necessary and a ramp built for DDA requirements up to the road bridge on the land vacated by the old tracks.
Alternatively the platform could be widened by removing the third track but retaining the fourth track and building the extra width where the third track was. Not as easy to get a ramp in though.
Google earth shows where the third and fourth tracks are...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3b2c28f94a620a2!8m2!3d53.2586803!4d-2.5181321

 

[northwichcat]

Regarding the width of the island platform at Northwich.
In my opinion, although it'll need trackwork changes, it would be best to use the existing platforms for any Middlewich/Sandbach services. Get rid of the third and fourth tracks behind the westbound platform. The platform can then be relatively easily widened if necessary and a ramp built for DDA requirements up to the road bridge on the land vacated by the old tracks.
Alternatively the platform could be widened by removing the third track but retaining the fourth track and building the extra width where the third track was. Not as easy to get a ramp in though.
Google earth shows where the third and fourth tracks are...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3b2c28f94a620a2!8m2!3d53.2586803!4d-2.5181321

The track adjacent to platform 3 is currently used as a passing loop so that a passenger train can overtake a freight train.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Regarding the width of the island platform at Northwich.
In my opinion, although it'll need trackwork changes, it would be best to use the existing platforms for any Middlewich/Sandbach services. Get rid of the third and fourth tracks behind the westbound platform. The platform can then be relatively easily widened if necessary and a ramp built for DDA requirements up to the road bridge on the land vacated by the old tracks.
Alternatively the platform could be widened by removing the third track but retaining the fourth track and building the extra width where the third track was. Not as easy to get a ramp in though.
Google earth shows where the third and fourth tracks are...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...3b2c28f94a620a2!8m2!3d53.2586803!4d-2.5181321

I've been trying to say that for a while.

 

[Altfish]

The track adjacent to platform 3 is currently used as a passing loop so that a passenger train can overtake a freight train.

You mean the freight train waits in Platform 3?
IIRC the line extends a good distance towards Lostock Gralam, so a passing loop could be created further down

 

[Eccles1983]

This has turned into a bit of a crayon fest with passing loops and major infrastructure changes.

I dont think Middlewich is worth the bother chaps.

 

[Altfish]

This has turned into a bit of a crayon fest with passing loops and major infrastructure changes.

I dont think Middlewich is worth the bother chaps.

It is not just about Middlewich and Gadbrook Park.
It is about connectivity with HS2

 

[no commute yet]

This has turned into a bit of a crayon fest with passing loops and major infrastructure changes.

I dont think Middlewich is worth the bother chaps.

We're not up to much if a single platform with a shelter each for Middlewich and Gadbrook equals major infrastructure changes. Northwich, Knutsford and Altrincham want their trains to Crewe back so it isn't even just about Middlewich and Gadbrook. BCR 5:1

 

[Eccles1983]

So talk of bridges and passing loops are now off the table?

And then obvious pathing issues into manchester?

It seems an awful lot of work and money for 2 stations.

 

[Altfish]

So talk of bridges and passing loops are now off the table?

And then obvious pathing issues into manchester?

It seems an awful lot of work and money for 2 stations.

You obviously missed my earlier post; it is not just about 2 stations. Think HS2 at Crewe
As for paths into Manchester - the promised Greenbank terminator diverted this way is the easiest solution. However in the long term the Airport Western Link provides the solution.

 

[B&I]

It's about providing a part of the world choked with traffic with an obvious public transport link. Is providing a footbridge or lift at the main station in a reasonably large town really now a major and insurmountable obstacle to developing our railway network ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You obviously missed my earlier post; it is not just about 2 stations. Think HS2 at Crewe
As for paths into Manchester - the promised Greenbank terminator diverted this way is the easiest solution. However in the long term the Airport Western Link provides the solution.

Whilst I am indeed thinking of HS2 at Crewe, how far into the future should my thoughts go, concerning that very matter. Is it proposed that any new Middlewich developments will time-wise run in tandem with the HS2 project?

 

[Altfish]

Whilst I am indeed thinking of HS2 at Crewe, how far into the future should my thoughts go, concerning that very matter. Is it proposed that any new Middlewich developments will time-wise run in tandem with the HS2 project?

Well in the ideal world The Middlewich Line would be open to passengers well before HS2. But this is the UK, so who knows?
The article in this months Rail magazine covers most of the issues.

 

[northwichcat]

You mean the freight train waits in Platform 3?
IIRC the line extends a good distance towards Lostock Gralam, so a passing loop could be created further down

Yes. Today at around 11:15 there was one of the waste trains waiting at platform 3, while the Pacer to Chester overtook it and there were also some of the Tata Chemicals wagons (still in Brunner Mond branding) in the sidings.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well in the ideal world The Middlewich Line would be open to passengers well before HS2. But this is the UK, so who knows? The article in this months Rail magazine covers most of the issues.

For those of us who do not subscribe to that publication, perhaps you can publish a brief synopsis on this thread once you have read the said article.

 

[muddythefish]

It's about providing a part of the world choked with traffic with an obvious public transport link. Is providing a footbridge or lift at the main station in a reasonably large town really now a major and insurmountable obstacle to developing our railway network ?

Apparently so, because there is no "magic money tree" (see East- West rail thread)

 

[no commute yet]

So talk of bridges and passing loops are now off the table?

And then obvious pathing issues into manchester?

It seems an awful lot of work and money for 2 stations.

Access improvements for Northwich are already being pursued. See below about passing loops.
What are the obvious patching issues in to Manchester? The campaign group have been told that isn't an issue now the Ordsal Chord is open.

Whilst I am indeed thinking of HS2 at Crewe, how far into the future should my thoughts go, concerning that very matter. Is it proposed that any new Middlewich developments will time-wise run in tandem with the HS2 project?

Absolutely not. This part of the country should not have to wait until 2027, or whenever, to get a passenger rail service. There's been a BCR of 5:1 for this project since 2009. Let's get on with it.

Yes. Today at around 11:15 there was one of the waste trains waiting at platform 3, while the Pacer to Chester overtook it and there were also some of the Tata Chemicals wagons (still in Brunner Mond branding) in the sidings.

There's a passing loop on the Middlewich Line so hopefully services can be timed for that loop or not to be at Northwich at the same time. No such issue going the other way: Crewe to Chester via Middlewich and Gadbrook Park could run now.

 

[Eccles1983]

How reliable is the BCR? I read somewhere it is very fanciful with its costings.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Absolutely not. This part of the country should not have to wait until 2027, or whenever, to get a passenger rail service. There's been a BCR of 5:1 for this project since 2009. Let's get on with it.

All well and good making euphorically sounding exhortations, but it is those who make the final decisions who have the final say, BCR of 5:1 or not.

 

[no commute yet]

How reliable is the BCR? I read somewhere it is very fanciful with its costings.

The BCR is thought to now be better than 5:1 because the 2009 consultancy report didn't include a platform at Gadbrook or the benefits of linking Altrincham (Metrolink), Knutsford and Northwich to Crewe.

 

[northwichcat]

There's a passing loop on the Middlewich Line so hopefully services can be timed for that loop or not to be at Northwich at the same time. No such issue going the other way: Crewe to Chester via Middlewich and Gadbrook Park could run now.

I think you misunderstand. Freight going from Northenden-Altrincham-Northwich-Runcorn uses platform 3 at Northwich as an overtaking loop, one on the Middlewich branch itself would be no use to those services.

 

[no commute yet]

I think you misunderstand. Freight going from Northenden-Altrincham-Northwich-Runcorn uses platform 3 at Northwich as an overtaking loop, one on the Middlewich branch itself would be no use to those services.

Yes, you're right - I was thinking of freight via Middlewich.

The campaign Facebook page is reporting that Fiona Bruce MP has been to see Jo Johnson about this project.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Altrincham (Metrolink), Knutsford and Northwich to Crewe.

That would probably be the best service for the line as Crewe - Chester already has a service.

 

[no commute yet]

Major progress for the campaign as Cheshire East are including this project in their strategic transport plan.

The LEP are finalising the report the rail minister asked for about this project so hopefully there’ll be more progress soon

 

[LOL The Irony]

Any recent news?

 

[no commute yet]

Oh yes! http://www.middlewichguardian.co.uk...get_cracking__with_Middlewich_passenger_line/

 

[johnnychips]

Is this not just yet another study? The current strategy of the government or whoever just seems to be raising local hopes (and not just on this line) to get good headlines by promising a report/study/enquiry which has the effect of delaying any actual action.