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Cambridgeshire misGuided busway opening postponed indefinitely

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Mojo

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http://www.cambs24.co.uk/content/ca...=xDefault&itemid=WEED16 Nov 2009 14:47:47:950

CAMBRIDGESHIRE County Council has confirmed a further delay in opening the St Ives-Cambridge guided bus link, which should have opened last April.

It is the latest embarrassment for the county council's guided bus delivery team, which has been trying desperately to get contractor BAM Nuttall to put the track between St Ives and Cambridge Science Park, along the line of the old railway, into a state to open safely.

The council has not committed itself to projecting when buses will finally start to carry passengers on the 15-mile busway, saying only that final tasks need to be completed before the route is handed over.

The likelihood of the troubled scheme's opening, even partially, this side of 2010 is practically zero.

I've heard it's falling apart. Excellent news for those who care about decent quality public transport and wise spending of transport budgets.
 
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Dennis

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Just how hard is it to build 15 miles of road for buses to run on? It's not as if they had any serious civils to do.

The likes of Telford, Rennie and Brunel must be looking down having a right laugh at the way we do things these days.
 

Aictos

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What might have been better would be Trams like Manchester's Metrolink or Sheffield's Supertram giving better capacity but what is ideal for the route.
Guided busway is not suitable but neither would be mainline services, if trams got used then they would probably be up and running by now!
 

Waddon

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I wonder if its possible to build a guided busway with tram rails inset into the concrete, for future possible tram services?
 

Failed Unit

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I wonder if its possible to build a guided busway with tram rails inset into the concrete, for future possible tram services?

In Edinburgh they are in the process of converting one at the moment for the tram network (£500million to replace the no 22 bus :lol:)
 

KendalKing

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I wonder if its possible to build a guided busway with tram rails inset into the concrete, for future possible tram services?

I do not see why not!!!!! When you consided how rails are set into the road surface at level crossings, and for trams running through the streets.
 

jopsuk

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In Edinburgh they are in the process of converting one at the moment for the tram network (£500million to replace the no 22 bus :lol:)

The guided bus section in Edinburgh was designed and built with the conversion to tram in mind- essentially, as far as I'm aware, it was built with the initial tram funding, and used as a guided bus until the rest of the funding could be secured.
 

Drsatan

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Well there's a surprise! The concrete track for guided busways is prone to cracking. Ordinary buses can't even be used on guided busways since they'd require some special guidance system. And from what I've read, the guided busway will only go to the outskirts of Cambridge, so buses will still get stuck in traffic in the city centre!

I thought the farce surrounding this guided busway would have stopped any plans for opening a guided busway on the old Fareham-Gosport line, which was originally going to be turned into a tram, but the tram was then scrapped in 2005 at Mr Darling's insistence. Even the local council don't want this guided busway so they're apparently delaying construction for as long as possible.
 

Mojo

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There's "Bus Rapid Transit" in Bristol as well on the cards, although I don't know if this is a misGuided busway or merely bus-only roads.
 

jopsuk

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BRT doesn't have to be Guided- in some places in the world it consists of bus lanes up the middle of roads with "station" style bus stops, complete with over-bridges.

The Cambridge busway is built very differently to the Edinburgh one, which was built as a foundation channel. The Cambridge one consists of pre-cast concrete sections, consisting of "rail" pieces with seperators spanning them. They're installed onto supports (basically, large concrete sleepers) and appeared to have rubber dampers between the track and supports- I observed the construction of the southern section from the train.

the Northern section does indeed only go to the outskirts, and the buses will then have to fight with all the normal traffic along Milton road etc.

the Southern section is perhaps better conceived, though much shorter, running from the Railway Station to Addenbrookes Hospital and Trumpington Park and Ride- meaning the "inner" end of the busway is much closer to the city centre.

I find it hilarious that for the initial Northern section, where Stagecoach and Whippet will be running identically liveried buses (with small operator logos), not only will there be no cross-operator ticketing (until smart-card ticketing comes into operation) with paper tickets only availble from machines- better buy the right ticket or you're not allowed on- but they've not even managed to provide an intergrated single timetable , instead splitting the various Stagecoach and Whippet services over five seperate documents. It wouldn't be difficult to do a multi-destnation single timetable- um - table.
 

Metroland

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BRT doesn't have to be Guided- in some places in the world it consists of bus lanes up the middle of roads with "station" style bus stops, complete with over-bridges.

As you say, fundamentally BRT is just a s****y bus with the odd dedicated lane. It's still a bus though, and as can be seen form the cambs guided busway travel times, generally doesn't offer that much over a conventional bus apart from a huge £150 million bill.

There's no technical reason why rails should have cost any more than those huge concrete beams to lay - you could have had 'pact' track which is essentially maintenance free for less. Nevertheless on such a lightly loaded line, the track would have needed very little maintenance. The (comparable) Skegness line is currently having track relayed, most of which dates from the late 1940s/early 50s. The last substantial bit was laid in 1962 and the signalling system dates mostly from Victorian times!

You do need a signalling system (though not a very substantial one in this case), but then with a bus you need more drivers comparably.

Most of the costs with public transport are staff costs.

In the end it will come down to putting bums on seats. With no journey time improvements, and no frequency improvements - indeed such a corridor it is doubtful with you even need the current service, the effect would be very marginal. No way would St Ives to Cambridge support metro style frequencies for any mode, the demand simply isn't there. Rail is generally better at buses at modal shift and at least you would have had better journey times and the option for freight.

The scheme is obviously dreamt up by politicians and civil servants, with ideology in mind - as it so often is with these things.

So confident are they about this scheme, they are still planning on spending £1.2 billion on a new relief road which will link the A1 and A14.
 

gingerheid

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In this case BRT along the chosen alignment would have to be guided, as it's a former railway line and would be too narrow for two driver steered buses to pass each other at 60mph.

I think the route should have been given to tram trains.

But in the interests of fairness I should probably point out one thing in favour of the guideway at the time it was planned that would have helped it look less silly; before the downturn started they were expecting to build near enough 10,000 houses halfway along the route. http://www.northstowe.uk.com/index.asp?PageID=1

If this had happened then it would have made it's route look less silly.
 

starrymarkb

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So confident are they about this scheme, they are still planning on spending £1.2 billion on a new relief road which will link the A1 and A14.

Which is also needed, have you seen the layout of the A14 at Huntingdon? All Through traffic has to leave the Dual Carriageway and negotiate a roundabout. (because the A14 through route was cobbled together from other roads) The Guided bus is for local traffic - Horses for Courses, I suspect buses to other destinations get snarled up in the A14 jams.

Saying that £1.2 Billion is rather steep, I'm presuming the work is a bit wider ranging then a flyover, a few miles of new road and a free flow junction with the A1
 

TrainBrain185

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What might have been better would be Trams like Manchester's Metrolink or Sheffield's Supertram giving better capacity but what is ideal for the route.
Guided busway is not suitable but neither would be mainline services, if trams got used then they would probably be up and running by now!
I would imagine the cost of installing the infrastructure for LRT operation against Guided Busway is way too much. I recall some incredible figure mentioned per kilometre for track laying on virgin rights of way for the Tyne and Wear Metro extensions. Whilst, though not ever visited Cambridge, its not exactly your Sheffield or Manchester for conurbation and population?
 

Mojo

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It's hard to say; in 2005 we put the capital cost of LRT at £15-20m per route km, however in Edinburgh, the 18km route has a budget of £545m (or at least did over a year ago when I wrote this paper).

However, the operating costs per passenger km can be as low as 25% of the operating costs of buses. Not to mention the environmental benefits, modal shift, safety benefits, social benefits, improved land benefits and regeneration benefits that rail does way better than buses (misGuided or not).
 

Mojo

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-spelt-new-116million-guided-bus-route.html

article-1234480-07873E55000005DC-84_634x476.jpg
 

gingerheid

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CФmЯДdЗ! ЯЗjФicЗ iИ thЭ stЯЗЭts tФ cЗlЭЬЯДtЗ thЭ gЯЗДt sЦccЭss Фf thЗ gЦidЭd ЪЦsЩДЧ pЯФjЗct!
 

Donny Dave

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Whoops ! Looks like someone needs to go back to sckool to learn how to spell !

My spelling mistake is intentional.
 
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CФmЯДdЗ! ЯЗjФicЗ iИ thЭ stЯЗЭts tФ cЗlЭЬЯДtЗ thЭ gЯЗДt sЦccЭss Фf thЗ gЦidЭd ЪЦsЩДЧ pЯФjЗct!
surely you mean
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furryfeet

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Even the local council don't want this guided busway so they're apparently delaying construction for as long as possible.

Are they hoping that a Conservative administration may revive the Gosport tram scheme ?

Or will that be pie in the sky, given the fact that the transport department's budget is to be squeezed to repay the budget deficit ?
 
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