Cambrian tourist Trains

[Gareth Marston]

Members may recall that when the additional services on the Cambrian were looked at again by the current Welsh Government there was talk of "tourist trains" but no one seemed to be able to pin down any scope or detail.

Stakeholders on the Cambrian Coast now are saying they've been told diesel hauled trains presumably with LHCS are being considered for summer 2016.

Any one with any knowledge?

 

[Bungle965]

That would be interesting from the start, because the Cambrain Line is ERTMS signaled the only loco`s that you could have which could work on there would be class 97`s. I have to say though that this idea was probably a hope, and is probably not going to happen.
Sam

 

[Llanigraham]

I've heard similar, Gareth.

As said, they only locos available are the yellow 97 tractors or they would have to find some spare ATW stock, and we know that is impossible at present.

Now if some nice rich benefactor would like to pay to modify some heritage DMU sets...............

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Serious question. How much work/cost to convert another loco. Say a Class 67 or 68 if the contracts went out there.

 

[6Gman]

Can't help feeling some investment in the basic year-round railway would be more useful.

It's not as though it's a part of the world that's lacking in tourist railways!

WHR, FfR, TR, VoR, W&Ll ...

 

[IanXC]

Does anyone have any links/sources for this?

I've not previously heard any reference to tourist trains in Wales, so it would be interesting to be able to get some background on this.

Thanks

 

[krus_aragon]

I follow the point of requiring 97s for ERTMS purposes, but why would they need to haul ATW-owned coaches? I'm not particularly up to date, but when ERTMS was introduced, the issue was that of continuing to operate railtour style excursions, as opposed to Scotrail-style in-house tourist-oriented services. Surely the 97s could haul DRS or WCRC stock, if punters were willing to overlook the lack of a kettle at the front.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I always thought that their was scope for something like this, from memory the steam hauled trains seemed to be increasing in popularity before they were prematurely curtailed because of ERTMS.
Can't recall seeing any previous mention of this on the forum,

 

[Gareth Marston]

West coast railways have 2 37's fitted with etcs equipment.

 

[Bungle965]

West coast railways have 2 37's fitted with etcs equipment.

And do you really think that Network Rail wants West Coast Railways near anything at the moment?
Sam

 

[6Gman]

And do you really think that Network Rail wants West Coast Railways near anything at the moment?
Sam

On a single track railway what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Bungle965]

On a single track railway what could possibly go wrong?

Where is the like button on this forum!!!!!
Sam

 

[Gareth Marston]

NR let West Coast test them down here in November all smiles apparently.

 

[Bungle965]

NR let West Coast test them down here in November all smiles apparently.

Allot has happened since then.
Sam

 

[Llanigraham]

I follow the point of requiring 97s for ERTMS purposes, but why would they need to haul ATW-owned coaches? I'm not particularly up to date, but when ERTMS was introduced, the issue was that of continuing to operate railtour style excursions, as opposed to Scotrail-style in-house tourist-oriented services. Surely the 97s could haul DRS or WCRC stock, if punters were willing to overlook the lack of a kettle at the front.

It wouldn't be ATW coaches, but one of the Tour Operators stock.

My comment about ATW stock was of finding a spare DMU to run up and down instead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Serious question. How much work/cost to convert another loco. Say a Class 67 or 68 if the contracts went out there.

Lots!!
Just buying the ERTMS cab unit wouldn't be cheap.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

NR let West Coast test them down here in November all smiles apparently.

No comment, other than things might have moved on since then!

 

[Chris125]

As said, they only locos available are the yellow 97 tractors or they would have to find some spare ATW stock, and we know that is impossible at present.

WCRC are having 37668 and 37669 fitted with Hitachi ERTMS equipment, indeed the former has already been tested on the Cambrian, so the return of West Coast operated charter trains may not be too far away.


37668, ERTMS tests, Machynlleth by Richard Jones, on Flickr

 

[Bungle965]

WCRC are having 37668 and 37669 fitted with Hitachi ERTMS equipment, indeed the former has already been tested on the Cambrian, so the return of West Coast operated charter trains may not be too far away.


37668, ERTMS tests, Machynlleth by Richard Jones, on Flickr

The testing was taken when West Coast was not in quite so much trouble, i think any thought of 37s going on the Cambrian will be a no go for now.
Sam

 

[fgwrich]

The testing was taken when West Coast was not in quite so much trouble, i think any thought of 37s going on the Cambrian will be a no go for now.
Sam

There's nothing like the 'tarnishing brush' on here for WCRC at the moment isn't there? Yes, there have been issues, and yes, the appropriate action is being taken now under circumstances we are not really allowed to talk about. However, where has any issues occurred on the Diesel side? And at least 2 WCRC tours operated today, as per course - Any issues with them? (the 47 vice Mayflower was down to an issue with Mayflower and it's FTR, Not WCRC themselves). WCRC are so far the only company having any of their locos fitted with the complex ETRMS Kit and seem to be funding it themselves, with the intentions of running Charter Trains down the Cambrain again. Can we at least cut them some slack for once? Rather than every other post being on the lines of I don't think NR will be seeing these / NR wont want them Running Charters down there lines etc...

I have no connection myself to WCRC, other than a good few highly experienced friends of mine for them and have done so for some time. But can we at least break the record for once?

I hope these test runs with 668 & 669 prove successful - it'd be good to see something else other than 158s allowed back down on the Cambrian again. and NRs 97s are rather being tied up with the Colas / NR Inspection trains at the moment.

 

[craigybagel]

Isolating TPWS is one thing - I reckon even West Coast would struggle to have a SPAD with ERTMS switched on.....

 

[fgwrich]

Isolating TPWS is one thing - I reckon even West Coast would struggle to have a SPAD with ERTMS switched on.....

Indeed! It's a highly complicated but impressive piece of kit!

Looking at a few pictures of 668, I'm not sure whether the Hitachi kit takes up as much space as the Ansaldo Breda in the 97s - The 3 of 4 ETRMS 97s have lost one Fuel Tank to provide space for the kit, 668 has a bulky shape where one of it's tanks was - that could be a new Fuel Tank design or it could be the Hitachi ETRMS kit underslung in that.

If you want to get an idea of what the refurbished ETRMS 97 Cab looks like, one is available in Open BVE as seen here (Real Cab Pic).

 

[craigybagel]

Indeed! It's a highly complicated but impressive piece of kit!

Looking at a few pictures of 668, I'm not sure whether the Hitachi kit takes up as much space as the Ansaldo Breda in the 97s - The 3 of 4 ETRMS 97s have lost one Fuel Tank to provide space for the kit, 668 has a bulky shape where one of it's tanks was - that could be a new Fuel Tank design or it could be the Hitachi ETRMS kit underslung in that.

If you want to get an idea of what the refurbished ETRMS 97 Cab looks like, one is available in Open BVE as seen here (Real Cab Pic).

I remember last year when the Cambrian Coast was blocked for 6 months and people started questioning why ATW didn't fit ERTMS to a 153 and have it run a Porthmadog-Pwhleli shuttle. Like you say its a serious bit of kit! On the 158s it takes up 2 seats worth of space as well as the cab alterations. It's not like you can fit a portable version like RETB.

Photo courtesy of http://www.nwrail.org.uk/c158.htm

 

[Chris125]

Looking at a few pictures of 668, I'm not sure whether the Hitachi kit takes up as much space as the Ansaldo Breda in the 97s - The 3 of 4 ETRMS 97s have lost one Fuel Tank to provide space for the kit, 668 has a bulky shape where one of it's tanks was - that could be a new Fuel Tank design or it could be the Hitachi ETRMS kit underslung in that.

There's a photo on flickr of this, according to the photographer "...what I assume to be the balise reading equipment under 37668. Unlike the 97/3s, one of the fuel tanks didn’t need to be sacrified; instead, a new one was fabricated with a notch cut into it to accommodate this equipment"


37668, Welshpool by Richard Jones, on Flickr

 

[Jonny]

Well, if the issue is the need for ETCS equipment, that is unlikely to be significant as it will be needed for go-anywhere stock soon (when the ERTMS/ETCS rollout begins in 'anger'). It will merely be a case of looking for excuses to fit it sooner.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Has anybody stopped to think that if 37s return to Wales, we'll have a "The Bashers" situation...?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Has anybody stopped to think that if 37s return to Wales, we'll have a "The Bashers" situation...?

perhaps theirs a secret Basher in Welsh Governments Rail Unit....

 

[61653 HTAFC]

All these locos mentioned on this thread so far have something in common (or rather they all lack something)... So if these services actually run, take a jumper!

 

[Gareth Marston]

All these locos mentioned on this thread so far have something in common (or rather they all lack something)... So if these services actually run, take a jumper!

Wrong type of garment the Atlantic Oak that grows along the Cambrian Coast is a tree that grows in certain conditions......

 

[6Gman]

Can we at least cut them some slack for once? Rather than every other post being on the lines of I don't think NR will be seeing these / NR wont want them Running Charters down there lines etc...

Nope. Personally I'm not keen on cutting any slack on basic safety.

 

[berneyarms]

Can't help feeling some investment in the basic year-round railway would be more useful.

It's not as though it's a part of the world that's lacking in tourist railways!

WHR, FfR, TR, VoR, W&Ll ...

Isn't that what the Cambrian lines have already got last May?

Four extra services on the mainline in each direction and an extra service in each direction on the coast line as well.

 

[Envoy]

Perhaps more promotion of the 'Ffestiniog Round Robin' ticket would attract more tourists to the Cambrian Line?
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/pr9ef8ea0d8240bfae38accb393ae920.aspx