Cambrian hourly service consultation

[merlodlliw]

Well you cant even get a connecting bus to Trefeglwys or Dinas Mawddwy........even Llanidloes is forbidden in the integrated transport desert of Powys.

Always strikes me to discover Powys is the most rural County in England & Wales
running from Wrexham County to Neath Port Talbot,its certainly a large,low populated place.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Always strikes me to discover Powys is the most rural County in England & Wales
running from Wrexham County to Neath Port Talbot,its certainly a large,low populated place.

The common mistake is to think the population densities shown on the maps are uniformly replicated across rural counties in fact the population there is tends to cluster along certain transport routes such as river valleys leaving the rest even more sparsely populated. So whilst the TraCC area alone has 11% of the population across nearly 50% of the land mass, half of they population lives within 10 miles of the Cambrian line.

There's a reasonable population along the A483 corridor as far south as Newtown but after that.......

 

[PHILIPE]

Always strikes me to discover Powys is the most rural County in England & Wales
running from Wrexham County to Neath Port Talbot,its certainly a large,low populated place.

I'd have thought Powys would have wanted to encourage and facilitate tourism. Did read once (on this Forum) there is not even a bus stop at Welshpool station.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I remember the dark days of the 1970's when we very nearly lost the Cambrian from a washout at Dovey Jct - Ynyslas and the Barmouth Bridge. In those days it took about 20 staff to run a single train to Salop from Aber - hence no Sunday services - the fleet was poor DMU's (often no heat in winter - I recall scraping ice off the inside of a Park Royal set on the 0520 off Aber and the poor guard used his flags for extra insulation in his freezing brakevan) ....


Maybe not right - but a site better than it was ..the railway has survived and is overall , in much better condition.BR did it's bit - the recycling of track off the ECML upgrade to the Cambrian was deemed good news - (a small start in the way up) -

The Class 104's were pretty poor stuff only 20 were built. Marples and Beeching cancelled the modernisation plan DMU orders in 1960 leaving a shortfall in what was planned. The Cambrian was at the back of the queue in the plan so was left steam powered, when the local services went diesel in July 1965 the DMU's provided were already second hand and the 12 104's that arrived were probably happily got rid of from elsewhere in LMR.

 

[PHILIPE]

According to ATW Journey Check, 16 09 Birmingham Intl to Aberystwyth formed 3 Cars (obviously 158+153) and that the single car would form 18 01 Shrewsbury to Swansea HOWL with 2 going forward to Aberystwyth vice 4.
The 16 09 is formed off 12 33 Holyhead so looks like attached 153 at Shrewsbury lieu 158. This can be deduced by the fact the 09+45 ECS Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury (STP arrangement vice 6 on 09 30 Aberystwyth) terminated at Machynlleth.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I'd have thought Powys would have wanted to encourage and facilitate tourism. Did read once (on this Forum) there is not even a bus stop at Welshpool station.

God knows what happens in the minds of those at county hall when it comes to simple things like stopping the buses near the railway station. There's also a dedicated bus lane by Newtown station that was built 13 years ago that buses don't use!
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According to ATW Journey Check, 16 09 Birmingham Intl to Aberystwyth formed 3 Cars (obviously 158+153) and that the single car would form 18 01 Shrewsbury to Swansea HOWL with 2 going forward to Aberystwyth vice 4.
The 16 09 is formed off 12 33 Holyhead so looks like attached 153 at Shrewsbury lieu 158. This can be deduced by the fact the 09+45 ECS Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury (STP arrangement vice 6 on 09 30 Aberystwyth) terminated at Machynlleth.

Would not have been pleasant from New St until it got beyond Newtown, 100 minutes into journey.

 

[Llanigraham]

There's a reasonable population along the A483 corridor as far south as Newtown but after that.......

And don't we know it!!
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I'd have thought Powys would have wanted to encourage and facilitate tourism. Did read once (on this Forum) there is not even a bus stop at Welshpool station.

They do, but they don't really recognise that the railway carries them.
I thought there was now a bus stop across the road. I'll have to check next time I'm up there (in the car)

 

[merlodlliw]

And don't we know it!!
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They do, but they don't really recognise that the railway carries them.
I thought there was now a bus stop across the road. I'll have to check next time I'm up there (in the car)

Had a look at the bus timetables,no service it seems drops off at Welshpool Station,

link http://www.tanat.co.uk/express-timetable.php?id=X71

Another site slates Powys CC transport dept for lack of information.

 

[berneyarms]

According to ATW Journey Check, 16 09 Birmingham Intl to Aberystwyth formed 3 Cars (obviously 158+153) and that the single car would form 18 01 Shrewsbury to Swansea HOWL with 2 going forward to Aberystwyth vice 4.
The 16 09 is formed off 12 33 Holyhead so looks like attached 153 at Shrewsbury lieu 158. This can be deduced by the fact the 09+45 ECS Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury (STP arrangement vice 6 on 09 30 Aberystwyth) terminated at Machynlleth.

So where did that 153 come from?

The Shrewsbury/Crewe and v.v. and HOWL services all appear to have operated. Was one of the HOWL a double 153?

 

[PHILIPE]

So where did that 153 come from?

The Shrewsbury/Crewe and v.v. and HOWL services all appear to have operated. Was one of the HOWL a double 153?

No idea. Units work all over the place and don't keep to diagrams due various reasons..
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RTT is showing the early morning from Barmouth as joining up with the 0730 ex Aber at Machynlleth after the tt change. Not terminating as reported on this thread.

I'm beginning to wonder if there will be an additional 158 diagram all day, 6 Cars on 07 30 Aber ex Shrewsbury and stay together as 4 to Holyhead, back to Birmingham Intl and 2008 Intl to Aberystwyth. Just have to watch this space. Although the core trains are in the system, they can still be working on ECS, Platforming or any slight tweaking finalisation The full Timetable Planning process can last up until the commencement date.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Had a look at the bus timetables,no service it seems drops off at Welshpool Station,

link http://www.tanat.co.uk/express-timetable.php?id=X71

Another site slates Powys CC transport dept for lack of information.

The X71 serves the villages between Newtown Welshpool that lost their stations in June 65 and the villages north of Welshpool to Oswestry that lost their service in Jan 65. Even though it drives past the station in Welshpool and comes close to Newtown's in Powys integration must not be allowed to happen!
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No idea. Units work all over the place and don't keep to diagrams due various reasons..
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I'm beginning to wonder if there will be an additional 158 diagram all day, 6 Cars on 07 30 Aber ex Shrewsbury and stay together as 4 to Holyhead, back to Birmingham Intl and 2008 Intl to Aberystwyth. Just have to watch this space. Although the core trains are in the system, they can still be working on ECS, Platforming or any slight tweaking finalisation The full Timetable Planning process can last up until the commencement date.

No the 1230 ex Aber extra will join up with the arrival from Holyhead at Shrewsbury and go forward as 4 to BHM INTL. The 1309 ex INTL won't split at Shrewsbury and go through as 4 car to N Wales.

 

[PHILIPE]

The X71 serves the villages between Newtown Welshpool that lost their stations in June 65 and the villages north of Welshpool to Oswestry that lost their service in Jan 65. Even though it drives past the station in Welshpool and comes close to Newtown's in Powys integration must not be allowed to happen!
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No the 1230 ex Aber extra will join up with the arrival from Holyhead at Shrewsbury and go forward as 4 to BHM INTL. The 1309 ex INTL won't split at Shrewsbury and go through as 4 car to N Wales.

No. 12 30 ex Aber nothing to do with it. ? the 11 09 ex Intl to Holyhead and return would be the one as the return working of the 07 30 ex Aber.

 

[Gareth Marston]

No. 12 30 ex Aber nothing to do with it. ? the 11 09 ex Intl to Holyhead and return would be the one as the return working of the 07 30 ex Aber.

That s not the train that splits at Llandudno Junction it's the 1309 ex INTL departs Shrewsbury @ 1425. The incoming train from Holyhead needs to join up with something and the 1230 ex Aber arrives @ 1418.

 

[PHILIPE]

That s not the train that splits at Llandudno Junction it's the 1309 ex INTL departs Shrewsbury @ 1425. The incoming train from Holyhead needs to join up with something and the 1230 ex Aber arrives @ 1418.

No again Gareth. Nothing to do with the 13 09. What I'm imagining could be 6 Cars on 07 30 Aber (2 ex Aber, 2 ex Barmouth 2 ex Salop off 06 30 ex Aber.
Return working 11 09 ex Intl to Holyhead, 15 33 Holyhead to Intl then 20 09 Intl to Aberystwyth. The idea in my mind is formed due to the unit 06 30 ex Aber shunts at Shrewsbury to attach to the 07 30 ex Aber.

I might be wrong as this is only a thought.
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Forget my previous posts, I can't surmise at least until the Platforming at Shrewsbury has been finalised. As it stands at the moment, the 07 21 Cardiff to Holyhead will "collide with" the 07 30 Aberystwyth to Birmingham Intl in Platform 4. The key may well be the set off the 06 30 from Aberystwyth shown to shunt to 4 and which also gets in the way of other trains !!!

 

[merlodlliw]

The X71 serves the villages between Newtown Welshpool that lost their stations in June 65 and the villages north of Welshpool to Oswestry that lost their service in Jan 65. Even though it drives past the station in Welshpool and comes close to Newtown's in Powys integration must not be allowed to happen!

Its a pity the good practice of the Wrexham/Barmouth bus is not followed,this calls at Ruabon Station from 0400 to past midnight, since GHA took over from Arriva bus, we see extra services on this route which is now a Trawscambria service.

link
https://www.wrexham.gov.uk/assets/pdfs/bus_timetables/x94_barmouth.pdf

 

[Gareth Marston]

Its a pity the good practice of the Wrexham/Barmouth bus is not followed,this calls at Ruabon Station from 0400 to past midnight, since GHA took over from Arriva bus, we see extra services on this route which is now a Trawscambria service.

link
https://www.wrexham.gov.uk/assets/pdfs/bus_timetables/x94_barmouth.pdf

One of the excuses made by Powys CC is that the railway changes the times of trains! At fixed dates twice a year with plenty of warning as we've seen on this thread.

 

[merlodlliw]

One of the excuses made by Powys CC is that the railway changes the times of trains! At fixed dates twice a year with plenty of warning as we've seen on this thread.

Powys CC are a strange crowd,interchange being a foreign word to them,buses also change timetables.The County was better served when it was in three separate administrations,Montgomery/Radnor & Brecon,The current County is in my opinion far too large to administer,purely based on population

 

[Llanigraham]

If (??) I ever get to see one of our prospective candidates perhaps it will be a useful question for them.
I see our incumbent MP seems to be expecting praise for getting the hourly service!

 

[PHILIPE]

Just off thread, but following on from Powys CC, Cardiff Council have announced a major tourism drive a couple of days after they have announced the "unstaffing" of the cities Visitor and Information Centre.

 

[merlodlliw]

If (??) I ever get to see one of our prospective candidates perhaps it will be a useful question for them.
I see our incumbent MP seems to be expecting praise for getting the hourly service!

I imagine all five main candidates will lay claim.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I imagine all five main candidates will lay claim.

Well I still have the letters SARPA sent to Central Trains and their replies in 1997 about extra trains on the Cambrian specifically the "Newtown to Shrewsbury shuttle" there an audit trail not a sound bite.

 

[Llanigraham]

Well I still have the letters SARPA sent to Central Trains and their replies in 1997 about extra trains on the Cambrian specifically the "Newtown to Shrewsbury shuttle" there an audit trail not a sound bite.

So our current incumbent Tory can't say it was his "good works"!

 

[Gareth Marston]

So our current incumbent Tory can't say it was his "good works"!

Given that extra trains have been 18 years in the coming there's a lot of AM's and MP's that have represented Cambrian areas in that period, I would say there's been no leading figure from amongst them. Possibly Lisa Francis the ex Tory regional list AM for the west wales was quite active, Mick Bates got SARPA some lobbying meetings with Ministers as did Lembit Opik.

 

[merlodlliw]

Given that extra trains have been 18 years in the coming there's a lot of AM's and MP's that have represented Cambrian areas in that period, I would say there's been no leading figure from amongst them. Possibly Lisa Francis the ex Tory regional list AM for the west wales was quite active, Mick Bates got SARPA some lobbying meetings with Ministers as did Lembit Opik.

Ah Lembit Opik, that brings back memories, As we are on the Cambrian, I see the 85 year old who drove his car across the Harlech Golf Club crossing and was hit by a 158 last year received a suspended sentence yesterday,the details are available on the web.

 

[Llanigraham]

Ah Lembit Opik, that brings back memories, As we are on the Cambrian, I see the 85 year old who drove his car across the Harlech Golf Club crossing and was hit by a 158 last year received a suspended sentence yesterday,the details are available on the web.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-32167251

 

[Starmill]

Had a little trip down to Aberystwyth this week.

Straight out of Shrewsbury and up to around 80 for the run to Welshpool and then on to Newtown. I was impressed - sure it didn't used to be that fast. And ooooooh, the satisfaction of zooming straight past the oncoming service at Talerddig

 

[Gareth Marston]

Had a little trip down to Aberystwyth this week.

Straight out of Shrewsbury and up to around 80 for the run to Welshpool and then on to Newtown. I was impressed - sure it didn't used to be that fast. And ooooooh, the satisfaction of zooming straight past the oncoming service at Talerddig

The line speed from Sutton Bridge Jnc to Talerddig has been 80mph since 1994, the pass at speed at Talerddig has only been possible in the last couple of years.

 

[PHILIPE]

No again Gareth. Nothing to do with the 13 09. What I'm imagining could be 6 Cars on 07 30 Aber (2 ex Aber, 2 ex Barmouth 2 ex Salop off 06 30 ex Aber.
Return working 11 09 ex Intl to Holyhead, 15 33 Holyhead to Intl then 20 09 Intl to Aberystwyth. The idea in my mind is formed due to the unit 06 30 ex Aber shunts at Shrewsbury to attach to the 07 30 ex Aber.

I might be wrong as this is only a thought.
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Forget my previous posts, I can't surmise at least until the Platforming at Shrewsbury has been finalised. As it stands at the moment, the 07 21 Cardiff to Holyhead will "collide with" the 07 30 Aberystwyth to Birmingham Intl in Platform 4. The key may well be the set off the 06 30 from Aberystwyth shown to shunt to 4 and which also gets in the way of other trains !!!

Just spotted the 06 03 Swansea to Crewe is shown as using Platform 7B !!!
Obvious platforming at Shrewsbury has not been finalised yet or, if it has, not uploaded to the system.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Chair of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Line Liaison Committee Mansel Williams who did much to push at the door to make the extra Cambrian trains happen unfortunately developed a brain tumour and has had to have it removed. He is currently in a Stoke hospital but hopes to be home before the launch of the extra trains on May 18th.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Chair of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Line Liaison Committee Mansel Williams who did much to push at the door to make the extra Cambrian trains happen unfortunately developed a brain tumour and has had to have it removed. He is currently in a Stoke hospital but hopes to be home before the launch of the extra trains on May 18th.

Let's hoping his surgery is successful and will be able to attend the launch.
Best wishes to him.