Cambrian hourly service consultation

[The Planner]

May 15? They won't have even submitted a bid for it yet.

 

[Gareth Marston]

May 15? They won't have even submitted a bid for it yet.

There's no way that NR can validate any requests until things like the Forden level crossing closure is complete and new times at higher line speed can be validated. The work on the new road is well advanced so should be some time in next couple of months. The long lead time on these extra trains happening from the announcement by Welsh Government 12 months is proving somewhat aggravating for those looking for hard news.
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Indeed they don't, another Welsh Government Minister in charge of Agriculture and Natural Resources(Forests/Environment etc) was sacked this week by the first Minister for Gross misconduct, The Minister with the WG rail portfolio takes over agriculture until the reshuffle,so rail will take a back burner for a few months.
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How did todays rug meeting go in Tywyn ?, did ATW put on a good show and confirm all is well with the new draft timetable for May 2015.Plus any news of ATWs proposed pinching of the 0745 service from Wrexham to Birmingham to put the unit on the Cambrian Hourly

Reluctant to say anything though we weedled out of them that they have seen the same proposed times as what's been posted on this thread. Denial that there would be any impact on Wrexham line services. They were quite keen to talk about the LHCS rake and confirmed plan is to implement it as posted on this forum morning commuter run into Manchester from Chester and then does boat train run to Holyhead and back and then return to Llandudno in evening peak. There will be more 3 car 175's running down the Marches as result. Southbound Gerald can run empty some days but busy others. Northbound is always well loaded leaving Cardiff. There expecting Pont Briwet to be open in time for new school year planning a lot of promotion of re opening.

 

[The Planner]

There's no way that NR can validate any requests until things like the Forden level crossing closure is complete and new times at higher line speed can be validated.

We can, the running times will be computer modelled and they won't be far out at all in comparison to reality.

 

[merlodlliw]

Reluctant to say anything though we weedled out of them that they have seen the same proposed times as what's been posted on this thread. Denial that there would be any impact on Wrexham line services. They were quite keen to talk about the LHCS rake and confirmed plan is to implement it as posted on this forum morning commuter run into Manchester from Chester and then does boat train run to Holyhead and back and then return to Llandudno in evening peak. There will be more 3 car 175's running down the Marches as result. Southbound Gerald can run empty some days but busy others. Northbound is always well loaded leaving Cardiff. There expecting Pont Briwet to be open in time for new school year planning a lot of promotion of re opening.

Gareth Marsden[/QUOTE]

Thanks for asking the questions about the Wrexham line,and ATW staff denial the Cambrian Extras will have no effect on the line,but I still think they will take the 0700 Shrewsbury to Wrexham & return at 0745 unit onto the Cambrian,our best hope is the early morning Holyhead/Birmingham is rerouted through Wrexham again instead of crewe.
At least ATW staff agree Gerald runs empty some days to Cardiff,I often see this at Wrexham General, the Northbound will always be busy departing Cardiff at 1716 with local commuters returning home to stations up to Abergavenny.but First Class remains poorly loaded even at 1716.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Gareth Marsden

Thanks for asking the questions about the Wrexham line,and ATW staff denial the Cambrian Extras will have no effect on the line,but I still think they will take the 0700 Shrewsbury to Wrexham & return at 0745 unit onto the Cambrian,our best hope is the early morning Holyhead/Birmingham is rerouted through Wrexham again instead of crewe.
At least ATW staff agree Gerald runs empty some days to Cardiff,I often see this at Wrexham General, the Northbound will always be busy departing Cardiff at 1716 with local commuters returning home to stations up to Abergavenny.but First Class remains poorly loaded even at 1716.[/QUOTE]

They've tweaked the avaiabilty of advance purchase tickets to reflect , a bit of research on fares on NRES may be pointer to when they expect to be quite and when busy.

 

[Squaddie]

Is there any chance that the regular contributors to this thread could take a little more care when quoting previous posts? It's becoming impossible to tell who's replying to whom.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is there any chance that the regular contributors to this thread could take a little more care when quoting previous posts? It's becoming impossible to tell who's replying to whom.

I thought that post disappeared at the time, screen went funny.

 

[berneyarms]

Any comment on the imbalance in the timetable - i.e. the lack of a train to operate the 1829 ex-Aberystwyth (i.e. is it an error that there was no mention of a 1625 from Shrewsbury)?

It surely has to be an oversight.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Any comment on the imbalance in the timetable - i.e. the lack of a train to operate the 1829 ex-Aberystwyth (i.e. is it an error that there was no mention of a 1625 from Shrewsbury)?

It surely has to be an oversight.

They stuck to the rather depressing line that nothing was finalised and the specification was being lead by Welsh Government, it was clear they had seen the same proposals as had come from the line liaison committee.

 

[merlodlliw]

They stuck to the rather depressing line that nothing was finalised and the specification was being lead by Welsh Government, it was clear they had seen the same proposals as had come from the line liaison committee.

Of course nothing will be finalised yet,and WG are paying for the three year trial,however ATW will have to steal a couple of 158 units from somewhere,I cant understand why the proposed & confirmed loco hauled service will depart Chester at 0740 for Manchester replacing a three car 175,when the busier 0712 is a 4 car 158, I realise it splits at Chester on its return, but remains in North Wales,one unit to Holyhead and one unit to Llandudno, 158s being the only franchise units allowed on the Cambrian.
We are also looking carefully no 158 units are taken off the Chester/Shrewsbury line without replacements,the 0745 158 Wrexham/Birmingham could be a candidate for the Cambrian,I don't see Gerald replacing Ruabon/Chirk/Gobowen as a stopper, that is if the new Minister for WG rail from September can find the money to continue to run Gerald as open access, with ATW admitting what we already know,that some days it runs Southbound without any passengers after Wrexham.
We have a rug SCRUA meeting on Thursday evening at Gobowen station to discuss our tactics to retain all services on our line,

 

[krus_aragon]

I cant understand why the proposed & confirmed loco hauled service will depart Chester at 0740 for Manchester replacing a three car 175,when the busier 0712 is a 4 car 158, I realise it splits at Chester on its return, but remains in North Wales,one unit to Holyhead and one unit to Llandudno, 158s being the only franchise units allowed on the Cambrian.

Isn't that your answer, though? Given that you can't split the LHCS, you'd have to choose whether to run to Holyhead (which would normally form a Birmingham service) or to Llandudno (returning to Manchester).

 

[merlodlliw]

Isn't that your answer, though? Given that you can't split the LHCS, you'd have to choose whether to run to Holyhead (which would normally form a Birmingham service) or to Llandudno (returning to Manchester).

Yes it is I suppose, but the key traffic is towards Manchester for work on the 0712 , the return sets do not contain full trains out of Manchester until late afternoon,I appreciate its a difficult decision,now that all rail decisions have been taken away from the North Wales consortia into Cardiff Bay who are almost 200 miles away and now making the final judgement, a kind of devolution in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes it is I suppose, but the key traffic is towards Manchester for work on the 0712 , the return sets do not contain full trains out of Manchester until late afternoon,I appreciate its a difficult decision,now that all rail decisions have been taken away from the North Wales consortia into Cardiff Bay who are almost 200 miles away and now making the final judgement, a kind of devolution in the wrong direction, in my opinion.

0813 arrival into Piccadily has to provide stock for 0850 departure, there's no way anyone's going to risk letting it run out Longsight and guarantee it back on time in the AM peak. Whether the flyer arrangements at Chester off the 0850 remain is to be seen. Had a hint that the 158 that overnights at Carmarthan maybe replaced by 2 car 175 off back of this reshuffle.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Had a hint that the 158 that overnights at Carmarthan maybe replaced by 2 car 175 off back of this reshuffle.

Interesting, might that result in improved reliabilty of decent stock on that diagram (I've seen a 150 vice 158 on the evening Fishguards and the boat train a few times)? Is the new Manchester LHCS turn due in December or is it May 2015?

 

[merlodlliw]

Interesting, might that result in improved reliabilty of decent stock on that diagram (I've seen a 150 vice 158 on the evening Fishguards and the boat train a few times)? Is the new Manchester LHCS turn due in December or is it May 2015?

December 2014.

0813 arrival into Piccadily has to provide stock for 0850 departure, there's no way anyone's going to risk letting it run out Longsight and guarantee it back on time in the AM peak. Whether the flyer arrangements at Chester off the 0850 remain is to be seen. Had a hint that the 158 that overnights at Carmarthan maybe replaced by 2 car 175 off back of this reshuffle.

Has the train is going to be class 67 & DVT, I dont see why it could not return from Longsight sidings within 35 minutes, however I do appreciate Manchester Piccadilly is one of the busiest stations outside of the smoke in commuter terms.
Suppose no one knows if the 158 will continue to split at Chester after May 2015, the three car 175 out of Chester ex 0740 freed up by the loco hauled will no doubt be doing a quid pro quo for a 158 somewhere, just my thoughts

 

[The Planner]

0813 arrival into Piccadily has to provide stock for 0850 departure, there's no way anyone's going to risk letting it run out Longsight and guarantee it back on time in the AM peak.

Why on earth not? 37 minutes to get to Longsight, turn round and come back? Easy.

 

[merlodlliw]

Why on earth not? 37 minutes to get to Longsight, turn round and come back? Easy.

That was my thinking, I suppose Gareth thinks ATW will edge on caution.

I also so note with the Loco Hauled starting at Chester ex 0740, the Coast will loose a direct Manchester,the 3 car 175 about to be replaced starts at Llandudno at 0634 all stations to Manchester. So a rejig will be required to get coast passengers into Chester to connect with the 0740.

 

[Llanigraham]

Why on earth not? 37 minutes to get to Longsight, turn round and come back? Easy.

But are there paths for that?

 

[The Planner]

Just a case of extending the one to Mayfield loop on to Longsight on the Up Slow, its only 1½ miles.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That was my thinking, I suppose Gareth thinks ATW will edge on caution.

I also so note with the Loco Hauled starting at Chester ex 0740, the Coast will loose a direct Manchester,the 3 car 175 about to be replaced starts at Llandudno at 0634 all stations to Manchester. So a rejig will be required to get coast passengers into Chester to connect with the 0740.

I think we might be jumping to conclusions here.
The DVT set must be based somewhere, and start and end its day's work there.
This is preumably either Crewe or Holyhead.
If it's Holyhead there will have to be an early coast Up and late Down (like Gerald).
If it's Crewe there are several options but probably not an early Up from the coast, or a late Down.
ATW have to maintain the specified services (though WG can change them).
Also, consultation isn't the same as a veto, or the timetable would never change!
An "all 3-car 175" service on the Marches would mean more 3-car 175s will come off the Llandudno.
There is more than one 2-car 175 on the Marches service at the moment.

Edit PS:
David Jones sacked as Secretary of State for Wales.
I wonder what he did wrong, other than not being a woman...?
Might not be good news for rail.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think we might be jumping to conclusions here.
The DVT set must be based somewhere, and start and end its day's work there.
This is preumably either Crewe or Holyhead.
If it's Holyhead there will have to be an early coast Up and late Down (like Gerald).
If it's Crewe there are several options but probably not an early Up from the coast, or a late Down.
ATW have to maintain the specified services (though WG can change them).
Also, consultation isn't the same as a veto, or the timetable would never change!
An "all 3-car 175" service on the Marches would mean more 3-car 175s will come off the Llandudno.
There is more than one 2-car 175 on the Marches service at the moment.

Edit PS:
David Jones sacked as Secretary of State for Wales.
I wonder what he did wrong, other than not being a woman...?
Might not be good news for rail.

Previous posts indicate it will be based at Crewe.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I think we might be jumping to conclusions here.
The DVT set must be based somewhere, and start and end its day's work there.
This is preumably either Crewe or Holyhead.
If it's Holyhead there will have to be an early coast Up and late Down (like Gerald).
If it's Crewe there are several options but probably not an early Up from the coast, or a late Down.
ATW have to maintain the specified services (though WG can change them).
Also, consultation isn't the same as a veto, or the timetable would never change!
An "all 3-car 175" service on the Marches would mean more 3-car 175s will come off the Llandudno.
There is more than one 2-car 175 on the Marches service at the moment.

Edit PS:
David Jones sacked as Secretary of State for Wales.
I wonder what he did wrong, other than not being a woman...?
Might not be good news for rail.

Yes it could be they want it to run at certain peak times and also ATW are rather found of tt cushion.

 

[merlodlliw]

[

QUOTE=LNW-GW Joint;1852699]I think we might be jumping to conclusions here.
The DVT set must be based somewhere, and start and end its day's work there.
This is preumably either Crewe or Holyhead.
If it's Holyhead there will have to be an early coast Up and late Down (like Gerald).
If it's Crewe there are several options but probably not an early Up from the coast, or a late Down.
ATW have to maintain the specified services (though WG can change them).
Also, consultation isn't the same as a veto, or the timetable would never change!
An "all 3-car 175" service on the Marches would mean more 3-car 175s will come off the Llandudno.
There is more than one 2-car 175 on the Marches service at the moment.

Edit PS:
David Jones sacked as Secretary of State for Wales.
I wonder what he did wrong, other than not being a woman...?
Might not be good news for rail.

[/QUOTE]

To keep continuity of rail services from North Wales direct to Manchester,I see no reason why this Crewe based loco hauled,could not run empty to Llandudno,then run to Manchester on the same timings,ATW run trains from Chester to Birmingham/Manchester etc from just passed 0300 to put them in place for return working,some run empty Chester to Junction for early running to the East.
I have no problem with the 175 being moved on the Manchester/South Wales run,but ATW/WG should not expect commuters from North Wales to Manchester who use the ex Llandudno 0643, have to get a train an hour earlier or change twice to connect with the new 0740 Chester/Manchester from December 15th.
As for David Jones MP for Clwyd North, he was a very good friend of the railways and pushed for extra Manchester/Liverpool services and Halton Curve Plus electrifying the North Wales line, he will be missed, the new Minister I presume will have a West Wales constituency, 200 miles away from North Wales.What he did wrong was upset the Cardiff Bay mafia,Carwyn Jones was talking of his sacking hours before David Cameron officially told David Jones he was to go.

 

[Gareth Marston]

How many people actually commute to Manchester from west of Chester?
Still back on the Cambrian the current rail planning seems to have forgot that the UK Spaceport maybe coming to Llanbedr!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How many people actually commute to Manchester from west of Chester?

Many. Typically half get off at Chester, and half carry on.
Coast to Warrington is also busier than you might think, always a decent group connecting into VT northwards.

 

[Squaddie]

Still back on the Cambrian the current rail planning seems to have forgot that the UK Spaceport maybe coming to Llanbedr!

How could they have forgotten somethring that was only announced today?

 

[Llanigraham]

I think Gareth had tongue firmly in cheek!

 

[Squaddie]

I think Gareth had tongue firmly in cheek!

It's increasingly hard to tell on the Welsh threads, where seemingly everything is a cause for complaint.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's increasingly hard to tell on the Welsh threads, where seemingly everything is a cause for complaint.

In fact no ones complaining its a biyt left field but has a chance of happening and could effect rail provision significantly if it happens. Llanbedr ticks thee criteria used and is the closest physically to the major uk population centres of the shortlisted 6 sites.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Minutes of line liaison committee from earlier this month not shedding much light.

http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/?page_id=672


4. Update on Cambrian Lines Enhancement of Services

4.1 The meeting received an update on progress with the improved rail
service due in May 2015. The Vice Chair confirmed all was on track
and that final details over timetabling was being considered. There
was to be a meeting with Network Rail over final details due soon.

4.2 The meeting also considered the station improvements needed along
the main line from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth.
The attached schedule sets out the aspirations of the meeting.

4.3 The following works are either under way or planned:

i) Improvements to access to platform 3 at Shrewsbury Station.

ii) Improvements to access including new lifts at Machynlleth Station.
Works to be completed by March 2015.


iii) Powys County Council have been asked by Network Rail to take
forward the extra car parking to the east of Welshpool Station.