Cambrian ERTMS delay

[merlodlliw]

Just been informed the Cambrian lines ERTMS is delayed until well into 2010, a year late, anyone else heard anything, this was mentioned at the weekend.
This would delay any additional services ATW intend running as part of the hourly service there.


www.rssb.co.uk/pdf/ERTMS190504.pdf worth a read and proposed dates now miles adrift

Just had a call from a colleague on the Cambrian route, he tells me all the NR
suits have gone very tight lipped when asked about the delay?(20/5/09)

 

[chris_uk]

What is the latest progress on Cambrian lines ERTMS project?

 

[68000]

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=5009&NewsAreaID=2

 

[SWT Driver]

I for one wouldn't trust it.

I'd much prefer TVM430, a proven technology.

 

[jopsuk]

LGV EST uses ERTMS Level 2. Frankly, we're being rather conservative by trialling it on a quiet country line. I can understand the desire to be conservative when it comes to critical safety systems, and we have less need to adopt pan-european systems thanks to our isolated network, but then again, why settle for old technology?

 

[SWT Driver]

In a sentence?

It's proven technology & reliable.

 

[paul1609]

I think we are having to trial it on a quiet country line because RETB has to be replaced by 2015 as the analogue frequencies have been allocated elsewhere.

 

[chris_uk]

To my knowledge, the Cambrian line was chosen as the line is self-contain, RETB is due for renewal, this line can simulate 70% of UK operational scenarios, allowed NR,RSSB to develop procedures, standards, regulations for future ERTMS migration or implementation. Single supplier was chosen as the project did not intend to spend time in managing multi supplier product compatibility etc, the project wanted to focus on technical and safety issues.

The website provided by 68000 has really good photo.

Does anyone know any website that has information about project progress, issues, the expected commissioning date?

 

[mr_moo]

Out of interest, I just checked the sectional appendix (the live version - I've got full access). The line is still shown in there as RETB, so presumably the line will revert to RETB running after the trial is over while they iron out any glitches that they found in it.

Or are they running on both? i.e. do the trains still have to get the 'token' and then continue, using the ERTMS equipment as an overlay only?

Can anyone enlighten us on exactly how it's being worked during the trial?

 

[The Planner]

ERTMS gets switched on in possessions as far as I understand it. There is no "live" running as yet.

 

[Railsigns]

During the four-day trial period, the section of line between Harlech and Pwllheli is being worked solely by ERTMS. No passenger trains are running. It will revert to RETB after the trial is complete.

 

[Crossforth]

During the four-day trial period, the section of line between Harlech and Pwllheli is being worked solely by ERTMS. No passenger trains are running. It will revert to RETB after the trial is complete.

Does that just mean rail replacemnt buses?
Are the test being run by the NR 97s or ATW 158s?

 

[merlodlliw]

http://sarpa.info/articles.html b scroll down to article five.[/QUOTE]

plus ERTMS Level 1, complete with computer generated graphics and "Archie" style driver.[/QUOTE]

from another contact.

" Network Rail go into hiding when questioned about ERTMS no one in the trade expects this to be operational before the end of 2010"

 

[The Planner]

The hourly timetable wouldnt be until December 2010 at the earliest anyway, so ERTMS wouldnt be utilised to its full extent until that point.

 

[merlodlliw]

The hourly timetable wouldnt be until December 2010 at the earliest anyway, so ERTMS wouldnt be utilised to its full extent until that point.

With all due respect, the hourly timetable as nothing to do with, what can only be described as a total cock up with ertms on the Cambrian,

Anyhow Dec 2010 for the hourly service is very,very optimistic. The Minister
will make a statement on Tuesday(live on S4C2) and he is not a happy bunny,
as several questions by A.Ms have been put down for answers concerning
Network Rail & ATW on the Cambrian situation and issues.

 

[The Planner]

Its running late, much like most large schemes on the railway. Whats the huge problems with ERTMS then ?? it appears you know more than most here.

 

[merlodlliw]

Its running late, much like most large schemes on the railway. Whats the huge problems with ERTMS then ?? it appears you know more than most here.

With all respect, in real life and business,penalty clauses are imposed on late delivery, however NR have no rival and appear to live in a cushioned life of no rush, any-time will do, or that is the impression given. your quote " its running late like all large schemes on the railways" would in real life business mean
going bust, or getting rid of a few clueless suits. ERTMS is funded by taxpayers money who might expect a bit of value for there revenue, not endless delays at extra taxpayers cost.


my opinion

 

[tbtc]

With all respect, in real life and business,penalty clauses are imposed on late delivery, however NR have no rival and appear to live in a cushioned life of no rush, any-time will do, or that is the impression given. your quote " its running late like all large schemes on the railways" would in real life business mean
going bust, or getting rid of a few clueless suits. ERTMS is funded by taxpayers money who might expect a bit of value for there revenue, not endless delays at extra taxpayers cost.


my opinion

So you don't have any specific information about ERTMS having particular problems, this is just a general rant about long running projects that fail to meet their deadlines?

 

[merlodlliw]

So you don't have any specific information about ERTMS having particular problems, this is just a general rant about long running projects that fail to meet their deadlines?

A statement will be made by the Minister on Tuesday, it was not me who said I appear to know more than most,but projects running over a year late do require an amount of scrutiny as do a few other NR projects in Wales .


M

 

[The Planner]

So this is basically another Wales is hard done by thing, change the record.

 

[merlodlliw]

So this is basically another Wales is hard done by thing, change the record.

No not at all, but as the Cambrian is within the Principality it is a Welsh matter
ill leave it at that.


M

 

[Spagnoletti]

The ERTMS rollout is a pilot so NR can flush out the engineering and project management challenges. As long as NR is learning how to do it properly what's the problem?

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

I wonder how the Cae Pawb crossing where the WHR crosses the Cambrian will affect the progress of this project, after all thats' got to be factored in as well.

 

[merlodlliw]

The ERTMS rollout is a pilot so NR can flush out the engineering and project management challenges. As long as NR is learning how to do it properly what's the problem?

I can understand a learning curve, however a delay of almost three years seems a long time,(SRA forecast)
if the learning curve is out of NRs pocket fine.

 

[royaloak]

As long as NR is learning how to do it properly what's the problem?

Surely all the bigwigs have been on factfinding holidays to find out all the pitfalls.
Is this the first time that the words "Network Rail" and "learning" have been used in the same sentence without the word "not" in between?

 

[The Planner]

I wonder how the Cae Pawb crossing where the WHR crosses the Cambrian will affect the progress of this project, after all thats' got to be factored in as well.

Thats already on the ground and is factored in with the signalling changes.

 

[Spagnoletti]

Surely all the bigwigs have been on factfinding holidays to find out all the pitfalls.
Is this the first time that the words "Network Rail" and "learning" have been used in the same sentence without the word "not" in between?

I had my tongue in my cheek but forgot the accompanying

 

[68000]

The ERTMS rollout is a pilot so NR can flush out the engineering and project management challenges.

and operational issues. It makes a lot of sense although I would probably pick something with a bit more intensive running for the pilot

 

[moggie]

I'd hazard a guess that NR are most certainly learning - something? Then they'll conclude they won't do it that way again on the next scheme - if conventional signalling is any measure.

PS would I be right that the principle signalling contractor for this work last did Sanbach - Wilmslow?

 

[The Planner]

A statement will be made by the Minister on Tuesday, it was not me who said I appear to know more than most,but projects running over a year late do require an amount of scrutiny as do a few other NR projects in Wales .

I was watching this on the BBC website today, I didnt see any questions asked, were there any as I may have missed it.