Cambrian coast signalling

[CosherB]

We're intending to take advantage of ATW Club 55 next week through Mid Wales and along the Cambrian Coast to Pwllheli. I've heard that the new high tech signalling on the line has not performed well following installation. Does anyone know if it regularly causes problems to on-time running on the line?

 

[The Planner]

Im not convinced it is as bad as made out, but if it goes wrong , it goes really wrong.

 

[tirphil]

There was significant disruption this morning. Pretty much back to normal by 11am.

 

[TDK]

We're intending to take advantage of ATW Club 55 next week through Mid Wales and along the Cambrian Coast to Pwllheli. I've heard that the new high tech signalling on the line has not performed well following installation. Does anyone know if it regularly causes problems to on-time running on the line?

I think it's pot luck, it does seem to cause quite a bit of disruption though, you may get lucky and get a clean run!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Everything will be fine or it will go completely tits up - no happy in-between. Though the extent of the problems are overstated. Its mainly been axle counter failures in recent weeks. Though all the other reasons trains get delayed happen as well.

The Cambrian is bad for knock on delays anyway with its current timetable as everything is suppose to pass at Talerddig which is some distance from the nearest loops to it at Machynlleth and Newtown so if one train is late the one in the other direction has no choice but to be delayed often heavily.

 

[The Planner]

That won't change though, and if an hourly ever happens then delays would get worse as you would be waiting to cross at every loop.

 

[merlodlliw]

That won't change though, and if an hourly ever happens then delays would get worse as you would be waiting to cross at every loop.

Not my patch, but these expensive loops are supposed to cure all this surely including the magical dynamic loop at Welshpool.

I was impressed with the new walkway at Welshpool last Sunday which leads to the excellent heated waiting area built by Tessie Cohen alas Tessie did not install a cafe in this all wood eco friendly building.

 

[The Planner]

Not my patch, but these expensive loops are supposed to cure all this surely including the magical dynamic loop at Welshpool.

No, they won't solve perturbed running. If something is running late, you are going to sit in a loop until the next train passes.

 

[CosherB]

Perhaps it's time to invent double-tracked routes instead of single line?

Can you imagine the equivalent road through mid Wales being one vehicle wide with passing places? :roll:

 

[Gareth Marston]

No, they won't solve perturbed running. If something is running late, you are going to sit in a loop until the next train passes.

The problem with all single track lines with passing places. Though in days gone by the passing places were a lot more frequent. Sutton Bridge Jnc to Cruckmeole Jnc (Minsterley Branch) was double track, Yockleton and Westbury were loops, Buttington Jnc to Forden double track, loops at Mongomery and Abermule, double track from Newtown to Moat Lane Jnc, loops at Caersws, Carno, Talerddig, Llanbrynmiar, Cemmaes Rd, Machcynlleth, Dovey Jnc, Glandyfi, Ynyslas, Borth, LLandre and Bow St and a bit of double from Llanbadarn Fawr into Aberstwyth.

We have pointed out that theirs still no scope for recovery since NR opted for what's been put in ground. Caersws is the obvious spot as something held at Talerddig can at least come forward.
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Perhaps it's time to invent double-tracked routes instead of single line?

Can you imagine the equivalent road through mid Wales being one vehicle wide with passing places? :roll:

There's a bit of the old Mid Wales Railway trackbed south of Erwood that's a single track road with passing places. You even use the railway bridges. You can get a good lick on but have to keep your wits about you for stuff coming the other way. You get back on the A470 over a chain bridge across the River Wye.

 

[HSTEd]

Has there ever been studies on these lines regarding what it would cost to redouble them all? (or extensively double them if complete doubling is out of hte question because of viaducts or whatever) It would seem to be a good thing to do vis-a-vis encouraging faster, more reliable train services and be an investment for the future. I am referring to the Cambrian Coast Line, the HML, the Far North Line, hell even the Atlantic Branch Line.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Has there ever been studies on these lines regarding what it would cost to redouble them all? (or extensively double them if complete doubling is out of hte question because of viaducts or whatever) It would seem to be a good thing to do vis-a-vis encouraging faster, more reliable train services and be an investment for the future. I am referring to the Cambrian Coast Line, the HML, the Far North Line, hell even the Atlantic Branch Line.

Not that I'm aware off, the Cambrian Work putting back Aberystwyth side loop at Dyfi Jnc and two miles of double track south of Welshpool was £13 million however all sorts of other stuff was limped in such as raising trackbed at Dyfi Jnc, rebuilding station platforms, level crossing upgrades, high speed points at other loops etc

Five years ago someone costed the loop at Caersws as £400K to put back.

 

[Greenback]

Five years ago someone costed the loop at Caersws as £400K to put back.

It may have trebled by now!

 

[The Planner]

There are a bunch of location cabinets there now anyway, which would need re-locating...

 

[Gareth Marston]

There are a bunch of location cabinets there now anyway, which would need re-locating...

and some of the level crossing paraphernalia- no-one ever seems to think ahead and cater for it.

 

[merlodlliw]

Perhaps it's time to invent double-tracked routes instead of single line?

Can you imagine the equivalent road through mid Wales being one vehicle wide with passing places? :roll:

Well some roads in Mid Wales are single with passing places, as for Double tracking, the refusal to double track the bridge near Wrexham, saved £400K
20 odd years ago, now its £42 millions to double track only part of the line,which is also ATWs biggest pinch point in North East Wales.
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No, they won't solve perturbed running. If something is running late, you are going to sit in a loop until the next train passes.

I agree with sitting in the loop, BTW how many loops are there between Shrewsbury & Aberyswyth, do I also presume Welshpool is the only dynamic loop
on the line?

 

[The Planner]

Welshpool is a loop, nothing fancy about it at all, it is just long. The only reason it has the name "dynamic" is that it is long enough to not have to stop if the trains are in the right place. If it is all up the spout the down train will either just sit in Welshpool station or go down to the end and wait.

 

[tirphil]

Well some roads in Mid Wales are single with passing places, as for Double tracking, the refusal to double track the bridge near Wrexham, saved £400K
20 odd years ago, now its £42 millions to double track only part of the line,which is also ATWs biggest pinch point in North East Wales.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I agree with sitting in the loop, BTW how many loops are there between Shrewsbury & Aberyswyth, do I also presume Welshpool is the only dynamic loop
on the line?

Welshpool, Newtown, Talerddig, Machynlleth, Dyfi Junction.

 

[merlodlliw]

Welshpool, Newtown, Talerddig, Machynlleth, Dyfi Junction.

Thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Welshpool is a loop, nothing fancy about it at all, it is just long. The only reason it has the name "dynamic" is that it is long enough to not have to stop if the trains are in the right place. If it is all up the spout the down train will either just sit in Welshpool station or go down to the end and wait.

And the chance of trains in the correct place, not often I would assume

 

[The Planner]

If everything is running to time or just off it then chances will be pretty hgh. You don't try and plan to fail...

 

[merlodlliw]

If everything is running to time or just off it then chances will be pretty hgh. You don't try and plan to fail...

Professionals don't plan to fail,I agree, unfortunately professionalism is lacking on some sectors of our Railways in Wales due to political interference and poor management, in my opinion

 

[matchmaker]

Has there ever been studies on these lines regarding what it would cost to redouble them all? (or extensively double them if complete doubling is out of hte question because of viaducts or whatever) It would seem to be a good thing to do vis-a-vis encouraging faster, more reliable train services and be an investment for the future. I am referring to the Cambrian Coast Line, the HML, the Far North Line , hell even the Atlantic Branch Line.

HML? Discussed in another thread, but cost would be enormous!

Far North? No point - not enough traffic, apart from the southern section. Clachnaharry - Clunes was doubled early in the last century, but singled again in the 1960's.