Calmac / Northlink Ferry discussion

[Grinner]

I suspect they aren't cancelling the route as they have long-term future aspirations to run it again, but presumably once they've got a bit more stability within the fleet and they'll undertake some birthing trials with a couple of vessels other than the Isle of Aaron and resume

Finlaggan is only slightly larger than Isle of Arran, and will become available once the new Islay vessels are in service, so I would think she might be a possibility for the Campbeltown service for 2026.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Finlaggan is only slightly larger than Isle of Arran, and will become available once the new Islay vessels are in service, so I would think she might be a possibility for the Campbeltown service for 2026.

In principle anything in the CalMac fleet will fit into Campbeltown - the Ro-Ro berth has a maximum length of 120 metres and is cleared to 5 metres below chart datum, which exceeds the size of LOCH SEAFORTH. And HAMNAVOE, for that matter. In practice, the safety of the berthing operation would still need to be demonstrated before revenue service could start, though I doubt there'd be any issue.

I'd expect that the Campbeltown service will continue to be run by the second Arran ship once GLEN ROSA (and probably the four Turkish ships) enter service, rather than running a third ship out of Ardrossan or Troon.

 

[AlastairFraser]

An intimation has appeared on the Caledonian MacBrayne website stating the Ardrossan to Campbeltown service will not operate this summer. The reason is that the only major vessel which can operate into Campbeltown Harbour ( " Isle of Arran " ) is required to provide life line services on other parts of the network.

In all honesty, I understand why they have chosen to chop this one when you can still shorten the road route to Campbeltown by travelling via Troon/Ardrossan - Brodick and Lochranza - Claonaig with a car.

 

[43055]

Do we know what route the Isle of Arran will be doing this summer?

On that note, do we know what the second Cumbrae vessel will be this year?

Currently down to do:
Troon - Arran until 3rd March
Oban - Mull 8th March-2nd April
Kennacraig - Islay from 4th April (presumably until the Isle of Islay arrives).

Images below show the full plan for the other 'major' vessels shared on a public Facebook group.

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[paul1609]

In all honesty, I understand why they have chosen to chop this one when you can still shorten the road route to Campbeltown by travelling via Troon/Ardrossan - Brodick and Lochranza - Claonaig with a car.

Is there actually much demand these days for the Campbeltown route? Ive driven it loads of times but never been on the ferry. Even the Citylink bus manages to get there from Buchanan Street in around 4 hours with a lengthy fag stop. I reckon by car you could do it in around 3 hours its only 135 miles. I can understand people wanting to hold on to these old traditions but I think the subsidy would be better used elsewhere on Calmac or even sorting out the road at rest and be thankfull.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Is there actually much demand these days for the Campbeltown route? Ive driven it loads of times but never been on the ferry. Even the Citylink bus manages to get there from Buchanan Street in around 4 hours with a lengthy fag stop. I reckon by car you could do it in around 3 hours its only 135 miles. I can understand people wanting to hold on to these old traditions but I think the subsidy would be better used elsewhere on Calmac or even sorting out the road at rest and be thankfull.

You've identified that the road route is poor quality. Campbeltown does need a non-road alternative (and if one of those is not a direct connection to Glasgow, it may be useful). They currently have the Loganair flight into Glasgow, but if that and the ferry went, connections would be difficult.
I suspect the ferry may survive in future with flights in the winter as part of an environmental drive.

 

[thejuggler]

Is there actually much demand these days for the Campbeltown route? Ive driven it loads of times but never been on the ferry. Even the Citylink bus manages to get there from Buchanan Street in around 4 hours with a lengthy fag stop. I reckon by car you could do it in around 3 hours its only 135 miles. I can understand people wanting to hold on to these old traditions but I think the subsidy would be better used elsewhere on Calmac or even sorting out the road at rest and be thankfull.

Roads carry more than people in cars. All towns and cities rely on freight deliveries and there are 2-3 new whisky distilleries planned in the area making products I'll be keen to try!

 

[Indigo Soup]

Is there actually much demand these days for the Campbeltown route? Ive driven it loads of times but never been on the ferry. Even the Citylink bus manages to get there from Buchanan Street in around 4 hours with a lengthy fag stop. I reckon by car you could do it in around 3 hours its only 135 miles. I can understand people wanting to hold on to these old traditions but I think the subsidy would be better used elsewhere on Calmac or even sorting out the road at rest and be thankfull.

It isn't a particularly old route, in fact: it was started as in 2013 as a trial for three years, and proved sufficiently popular that it was taken forward. There's an ambition to make it year-round once the new ships are in full service.

 

[paul1609]

Roads carry more than people in cars. All towns and cities rely on freight deliveries and there are 2-3 new whisky distilleries planned in the area making products I'll be keen to try!

As it happens most of my road trips to Cambeltown were doing my emergency road tanker driver training from Grangemouth so Im pretty au fait with the nature of the route despite living at the other end of the country. Did the ferry ever actually carry any road freight or was it almost entirely tourist orientated? i suspect the nature of road haulage costs means the ferry would need to be free to attract any hgv traffic.

 

[Indigo Soup]

i suspect the nature of road haulage costs means the ferry would need to be free to attract any hgv traffic.

The restrictions on carrying dangerous goods would probably make it nonviable for a lot of traffic even if it was free. Historically, dangerous goods for Arran has had to go the long way around as the Ardrossan ferries couldn't take petrol tankers, gas canisters etc.

 

[Southsider]

The restrictions on carrying dangerous goods would probably make it nonviable for a lot of traffic even if it was free. Historically, dangerous goods for Arran has had to go the long way around as the Ardrossan ferries couldn't take petrol tankers, gas canisters etc.

That was down to the enclosed car deck on Caledonian Isles. Isle of Arran, Glen Sannox and Glen Rosa have open car decks.

 

[Albaman]

According to the Caledonian MacBrayne website, MV " Caledonian Isles " is now expected to re-enter service at the end of May 2025.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well, let's hope it happens or they're going to struggle over the summer again, especially if one of the other larger ones breaks down

 

[43055]

Plans for a fleet shuffle once the newbuilds arrive:

Clansman - Oban-Castlebay
Hebrides - Oban-Coll-Tiree/Colonsay
Caledonian Isles - Oban-Mull
Finlaggan - Relief
Isle of Lewis - returned to CMAL
Isle of Arran & Isle of Mull - disposed

Proposals to switch existing CalMac ferries to different routes after new ships arrive

Hebrides News - Heb News - the Western Isles' favourite source for local news

www.hebrides-news.com

A number of Caledonian MacBrayne’s existing ships are set to be assigned to other communities in the ferry network over the next couple of years.​

The introduction of new vessels in the fleet will release a number of ferries to be redeployed elsewhere.​

Working assumptions have been drawn up under a Scottish Government plan though changeover dates depend on when new-build vessels are delivered.​

Current thinking is to shift MV Clansman to the Oban-Castlebay service by 2027 when two new ships take up the split Tarbert and Lochmaddy routes. The move would see CalMac returning MV Isle of Lewis to CMAL.​

At the same time MV Hebrides is expected to transfer to Coll/Tiree and Colonsay sailings where she could operate up to the end of the decade. The Hebrides is herself due to leave the fleet by 2031 prompting a desire to build her replacement to the ‘Islay vessel’ design though that would require major port upgrade works at Coll and Tiree.​

MV Caledonian Isles is pencilled in for the Craignure-Oban route after MV Glen Rosa commences passenger duties at Arran with CalMac. However, the Rosa’s delivery date is up in the air. No substantive estimate of when construction of the ship will be completed has been proffered since November. Ferguson Marine’s last timeline suggested a handover in September this autumn.​

The aging MV Isle of Mull is in line for disposal after she is replaced on the Mull service by the Caledonian Isles. MV Loch Frisa is expected to continue on the route it is understood.​

A business case to build two new vessels to work the Mull service is at an early stage. The replacements are many years away and the project is not currently funded. MV Loch Frisa could then be potentially redeployed from Craignure to elsewhere on the network if a crossing with suitable harbours is identified.​

Around next spring, MV Isle of Arran is expected to become surplus to CalMac’s requirements and MV Finlaggan will become the resilience vessel for the CalMac fleet when Islay receives two new ferries from Turkey. MV Isle of Islay is expected to be plying the Islay route later this year with sister ship, MV Loch Indaal, joining her some six months later.​

The vessel redeployment proposals reflects the Scottish Government’s ambition to replace the ferry fleet and enhance reliability and resilience. However, the plan hinges on the availability of funding. Individual investment in port and vessel projects will also require to pass value-for-money tests and detailed business cases.​

Meanwhile, business cases are being developed to renew or upgrade port infrastructure at Gasay Lochboisdale, Oban, Armadale, and Kennacraig. Funding decisions whether to support these projects will consider affordability and value for money as the business cases progress. An upgrade is also earmarked for Castlebay in the coming years.​

The earliest estimate for delivery of a replacement MV Lord of the Isles for the South Uist run is the end of 2028. The outline business case is at an advanced stage while funding has been earmarked to start the tender process.​

MV Finlaggan and MV Loch Seaforth are due to be replaced from 2036.​

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is the Isle of Lewis really that inflexible that it's seen fit to return her? I guess there's maybe some money to be made from her by charter or sale but seems silly with some of the older fleetmates still out and about not to have another relief that could be kept in commission and thrown back out when needed

 

[43055]

Is the Isle of Lewis really that inflexible that it's seen fit to return her? I guess there's maybe some money to be made from her by charter or sale but seems silly with some of the older fleetmates still out and about not to have another relief that could be kept in commission and thrown back out when needed

I believe she can only do the Lewis and Barra runs so really it is probably better being charted or sold as it gives more flexibility on the rest of the fleet.

 

[Russel]

Seems strange to make the Finlaggan a relief vessel, given it is relatively young, by Calmac standards.

 

[Transilien]

Are there any plans to replace MV Isle of Cumbrae? It's the oldest vessel in the fleet, dating from 1977 and will be turning 50 soon.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Are there any plans to replace MV Isle of Cumbrae? It's the oldest vessel in the fleet, dating from 1977 and will be turning 50 soon.

It's covered by the Small Vessel Replacement Programme - Remontowa was identified as the preferred bidder back in March.

 

[Transilien]

It's covered by the Small Vessel Replacement Programme - Remontowa was identified as the preferred bidder back in March.

That's good news.

 

[Strathclyder]

Are there any plans to replace MV Isle of Cumbrae? It's the oldest vessel in the fleet, dating from 1977 and will be turning 50 soon.

Is she still sailing between Largs & Cumbrae? I may need to make a trip down to Largs on the train to catch her soon, tick her off before she goes.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is she still sailing between Largs & Cumbrae? I may need to make a trip down to Largs on the train to catch her soon, tick her off before she goes.

When I was last at Largs in June 2023, it was the MV Loch Shira.

 

[Strathclyder]

When I was last at Largs in June 2023, it was the MV Loch Shira.

The Largs/Cumbrae crossing has seen a real mixed bag in recent years.

Just checked marinetraffic.com and she's (Cumbrae) presently moored at Largs, been there since Monday evening (5th May) after sailing across from Cumbrae Slip. Loch Shira is covering the crossing atm.

 

[Blindtraveler]

How many are we expecting to see replaced as part of this upgrade program? I've kind of lost track and I know that arrangements not least to do with funding have changed a few times. Whilst the whole thing could have been handled better, I've got to feel sorry for the Scottish government and cmal just at the moment, So many vessels needing replaced plus internal ferry fleets on the likes of oakney and complete fleet replacement over time for northlink. I know that there's currently work going on to renew the two freight vessels with probable additional passenger capacity, but when do they think they'll start the process for the three passenger sisters which are unbelievably coming up for 25 years old, I can remember these when they were new.

 

[Russel]

Do we know what the second Cumbrae vessel will be this year?

 

[Indigo Soup]

Is she still sailing between Largs & Cumbrae? I may need to make a trip down to Largs on the train to catch her soon, tick her off before she goes.

Currently doing Tarbert-Portavadie. I get what they're going for by giving the ferries names associated with their original routes, but it causes confusion when they inevitably wind up on a different route.

How many are we expecting to see replaced as part of this upgrade program? I've kind of lost track and I know that arrangements not least to do with funding have changed a few times. Whilst the whole thing could have been handled better, I've got to feel sorry for the Scottish government and cmal just at the moment, So many vessels needing replaced plus internal ferry fleets on the likes of oakney and complete fleet replacement over time for northlink. I know that there's currently work going on to renew the two freight vessels with probable additional passenger capacity, but when do they think they'll start the process for the three passenger sisters which are unbelievably coming up for 25 years old, I can remember these when they were new.

SVRP Phase 1 plans to build six new vessels, and cascade one newish one, to replace seven older vessels. SVRP Phase 2 will build a further three somewhat larger small ferries.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks. Appreciate that

 

[Cloud Strife]

So many vessels needing replaced plus internal ferry fleets on the likes of oakney and complete fleet replacement over time for northlink. I know that there's currently work going on to renew the two freight vessels with probable additional passenger capacity, but when do they think they'll start the process for the three passenger sisters which are unbelievably coming up for 25 years old, I can remember these when they were new.

Speaking of Northlink, from what I understand, they're in excellent condition and they shouldn't have any issues operating for another 10 years. The general long term plan is that Northlink will get the new freight boats, then it's a matter of seeing how many more years they can get out of the passenger boats. Hamnavoe in particular hasn't really been pushed hard at all for the past 23 years, so I'd be surprised if she gets replaced before 2040 or so.

The Aberdeen twins are a different story, but they're still likely to be in good enough shape to avoid the need to replace them until 2035 or so. My suspicion is that the replacement vessels will likely have smaller passenger areas and more cabins however, as this is where the real demand is.

 

[HSTEd]

I had a question that relates to CalMac and isn't worth a thread.
Does anyone know if there has been any serious consideration about a bridge on the Rhubodach-Colintraive route?
It appears to show up occasionally in various community social media groups and the like, but I can't find anything "official".

It's only 410m, and although it is comparatively deep for the distance, the ferry takes up a significant portion of the entire length!
Operating the ferry like that can't be cheap.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Operating the ferry like that can't be cheap.

For the limited demand, a bridge would also be disproportionately expensive - it's the perennial problem of operating costs vs. capital costs.

It does seem to have been the subject of a question in Parliament in 1971 (met with dismissal). A 2001 Jacobs AECOM study into access to Argyll & Bute - looking at alternatives to the A83 at Rest and Be Thankful - did consider it as part of a wider North Ayrshire-Little Cumbrae-Bute-Cowal bridge route, but not on its own merits.