Call for double-decker trains on Edinburgh - Glasgow services

[duncanp]

Is he not a month early with this?

It is March 1st today, not April 1st.

 

[Clansman]

Which need them the least.

Exactly.

 

[R4_GRN]

If it is a completely new line do we need platforms? Would American style entry to carriages at ground level solve the problems and permit more passengers?

Before the experts on here criticise me I am not employed by the industry just a non anorak wearing member of the public!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

This double deck thing again. Can anyone explain how it will be 2020 reduced mobility compliant?

 

[najaB]

If it is a completely new line do we need platforms? Would American style entry to carriages at ground level solve the problems and permit more passengers?

Before the experts on here criticise me I am not employed by the industry just a non anorak wearing member of the public!

Low level platforms aren't, generally speaking, disability-friendly.

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[gsnedders]

One of the often overlooked problems with double deck trains is that while capacity is increased the number of doors usually isn't, the design usually makes this impossible with double deckers. This leads to increased station dwell times, over and beyond that of crowded single deckers, and so longer journeys.

If a high-speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow gets built, I'd assume the majority of trains would run non-stop from terminus to terminus, hence dwell time wouldn't be such a concern. And given realistically that's the only way we'll get double deckers...

 

[R4_GRN]

Oops najaB, had not thought of that just seemed an obvious solution at the time

 

[najaB]

If a high-speed line between Edinburgh and Glasgow gets built, I'd assume the majority of trains would run non-stop from terminus to terminus, hence dwell time wouldn't be such a concern.

I believe the plan is for one stop at Haymarket.

 

[PaulLothian]

Still baffles me that the quickest route between them goes up the back way through Falkirk whilst the more direct route that runs parallel to the M8 takes longer.

Only about three miles in it, and the Falkirk route was designed to be a high-speed line from the outset.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

"However, Neil said rail renationalisation would allow Scotland to pursue such radical innovations"

I suspect people have claimed nationalisation would provide an entire shopping list of benefits without end!

It would be slightly worrying as a Scottish taxpayer that such uneconomic plans would be foisted on the railway system if it were fully nationalised. It will doubtless cost far more to 'deepen' one of the current GLW - EDN routes, particularly combined with the mass disruption caused by the closure, than to re-open many other closed lines, including the Borders which would be beneficial to many people rather than just the top end city commuters.

I don't mean to be rude, but my impression from visiting the UK is that British trains are not up to the same standard as other trains in Western Europe (although it seems like things are happening!). A small loading gauge is a problem, but maybe it can make sense to start widening the loading gauge in selected areas like the Central Belt? Or build a new rail line between Glasgow and Edinburgh, that in the future can be connected to HS2?

Which part of Europe and which part of the UK? The new class 380s and modern 334s in Scotland are perfectly solid trains and easily the match of any international units I have used. Some trains are dated, but the internal and external conditions of most UK units easily match those in Germany, Italy and France which are often laden in graffiti inside and out.

 

[47271]

This is hilarious considering that EGIP in its present form is still in confusion over OHLE clearances for single deck trains.

As far as I can see the ruddy faced Neil is now very much on the margins of Scottish politics and at best lightly humoured if not completely ignored.

 

[Carntyne]

Alec Neil's not known for common sense. Idiotic comments, especially given he was Transport Minister for a time.

Glad to see renationalisation will provide so much money for the railway by the SNP Government though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Low level platforms aren't, generally speaking, disability-friendly.

They are if you have a modern low-floor DMU or EMU like a Stadler FLIRT.

The Swiss have level boarding on regional services now (which is better than we have) and they are a low-platform country.

 

[Highland37]

The TGV Duplex is an excellent train and very well designed. UK stock feels very cramped and dated in comparison.

 

[Clansman]

The TGV Duplex is an excellent train and very well designed. UK stock feels very cramped and dated in comparison.

Agreed. I love the TGV Duplex', a proper High Speed train which maximises resources in terms of passenger comfort and capacity.

It's unfortunate that we didn't take the low platformed route, although that being said there's something about our loading gauge which makes the journey a better experience, or more pleasant even - although I can't really describe it.

 

[Spartacus]

This double deck thing again. Can anyone explain how it will be 2020 reduced mobility compliant?

I've been on some where you board at normal platform level and there's a few seats, wheelchair bays, bike storage and a loo above the bogies. You'd then go down to the lower level, or up to the higher one.

 

[JonasB]

Which part of Europe and which part of the UK? The new class 380s and modern 334s in Scotland are perfectly solid trains and easily the match of any international units I have used. Some trains are dated, but the internal and external conditions of most UK units easily match those in Germany, Italy and France which are often laden in graffiti inside and out.

Being Swedish my experience mostly from Scandinavia, and Germany/Benelux. But also other parts of Europe. My trips to UK has mostly been to Scotland, but a few visits to England.

The British loading gauge is a big disadvantage, British trains feel cramped. So far I haven't had the opportunity to try the 380 or 334. But there are nice trains in the UK, I've personally become very fond of Turbostars for shorter journeys.

But there is a lot of older stock. I've travelled on a class 158 to Inverness, and for a 3.5 h journey the comfort wasn't great. And last year in England I had the opportunity to try a Voyager, and it wasn't the best train trip of my life. It could use better seats, and the diesel engines were noisy. And while there are modern trains in the UK, the HST/IC125 is still used on a lot of mainline services. And though it probably was a very modern train in the seventies, today it can't be compared to a German ICE, or the Swedish X2000.

Which leads to "lack of electrification", there are a lot of diesel trains. Most of the ones I have tried (except the IC125) have been a bit noisy. And idling diesel trains at major stations is not the best recipe for a nice environment. My first trip on an IC125 was from Edinburgh to London and when I arrived at the platform at Waverley I found a diesel train idling at a platform. After a few hours journey, with a diesel train on a fully electrified ECML, I arrived at Kings Cross where there were a lot of idling trains at the station and the smell of diesel exhaust was unavoidable.

And something a bit annoying is that the only train companies I've encountered that don't offer "print at home tickets" have been in the UK.

But everything is not bad. British railway stations are in my opinion among the best kept in Europe. The fact that even smaller stations are manned is great! (And there are a lot of very beautiful stations in the UK!) And I have the impression that a lot of things are happening, the electrifications and HS2 are great news for the future! And a lot of operators seem to be ordering new trains, new electric trains and bi-mode trains will probably be great for station environment. I'm really looking forward to trying the new class 800/801/802s!

 

[swt class 450]

Would we need is many more 12 coach trains throughout the UK. I dont think double deck trains will really ever be possible due to so many low bridges and other obstacles.

 

[najaB]

They are if you have a modern low-floor DMU or EMU like a Stadler FLIRT.

Like I said 'generally'.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

They are if you have a modern low-floor DMU or EMU like a Stadler FLIRT.

The Swiss have level boarding on regional services now (which is better than we have) and they are a low-platform country.

All well and good but you still end up having variable floor height within the unit with steps to get "up and over" the bogies. This generates additional risk to anyone wishing to pass through the train so affects passengers and staff. We already have people willing to condemn the IEP-derived trains for having a gently ramped floor, imagine the furore if trains had steps in the gangway at the end of each vehicle! And where do you put the traction equipment? Either you have a mid-unit pod, thereby adding another complication to through-train accessibility or it goes above the ceiling giving a much higher centre of gravity which is highly undesirable in the event of a derailment. On balance I think what we have ended up with in this country provides the best solution for PRM access, we just need to sort out the remaining lowish platforms that still exist out in the sticks (mostly).

 

[jopsuk]

12-car/250m trains aren't going to happen on the Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High line. It would require the buffer stops at Queen Street to be on the south side of West George Street.

There are high platform double deck trains with level boarding and level lower floor. They operate in this country and France

Does need an extreme loading gauge of course. But imagine just how spacious passenger trains the size of the Channel Tunnel shuttle trains would be

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does need an extreme loading gauge of course. But imagine just how spacious passenger trains the size of the Channel Tunnel shuttle trains would be

Just imagine how many seats they'd cram in. It'd look like a widebody aircraft.

Having a body size where 2+2 is the most you can reasonably fit in for long-distance use has advantages.