"Caledonian TPO Day Down"

[Oxfordblues]

Working at Preston Station one evening in the 1970s I noticed, among a pile of mail-bags, one labelled "Caledonian TPO Day Down". For many years I've wondered about this mysterious train. Perhaps one of our readers can enlighten me? It clearly ran on the former Caledonian Railway, presumably northbound ("Down"), but why "Day"? I'd be surprised if there were a daytime TPO. Might it have started at Carstairs, connecting out of the "Down Special TPO"? All replies much appreciated.

 

[mailbyrail]

Back in May 1848 both the Caledonian Day and Night Railway Post Offices began running in both directions between Carlisle and Edinburgh and then soon running between Carlisle and Perth. Both trains than ran through to Aberdeen from 1849. The trains were renamed TPOs in July 1885. The night train was withdrawn in 1917 as part of wartime economies but the Day train continued to run. The naming of the train as the 'Day' continued even though it left Carlisle in the early evening with similar timings throughout its history, albeit speeded up from its 1840's timings. The Day service did indeed connect into and out of the Up and Down Specials.
From December 1924 a portion was detached at Carstairs to run to and from Edinburgh and a Glasgow portion also began in June 1935 and all three portions continued to run until November 1988 with complex movements at Carstairs as portions were attached or detached. The train also carried passengers although I'm not sure if that was only between Carlisle and Perth by the 1970s. I remember posting letters into each portion of the Up train around 22.30 but didn't wait around until somewhere around 02.00 for the Down, although the shunter was happy to oblige me by posting into all three portions that he coupled together.

 

[Magdalia]

After electrification north of Crewe in 1974 the train was 1S81 2038 (in later years 2050) Carlisle to Perth arrive 0012 (in later years 0001). Passengers had a connection out of 1645 Euston-Glasgow.

I have a Euston-Crewe WTT for 1965 (before electrification south of Rugby) when 1S81 was 1335 Euston-Perth. The equivalent PTT is on Timetable World and shows that in 1965 1S81 called Preston 1744-1752, Carlisle arrive 2000 and Perth arrive 0030.

I don't know if 1S81 ran through from Euston in the era of electric trains between Euston and Crewe from 1966 to 1973.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Thank you both for those informative replies. They clarify that the Caledonian TPO Day Down was an evening departure from Carlise to Perth, presumably connecting there with the Glasgow/Edinburgh-Inverness sleeper/postal train, but not out of the Down Special TPO.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

From December 1924 a portion was detached at Carstairs to run to and from Edinburgh and a Glasgow portion also began in June 1935 and all three portions continued to run until November 1988 with complex movements at Carstairs as portions were attached or detached. The train also carried passengers although I'm not sure if that was only between Carlisle and Perth by the 1970s. I remember posting letters into each portion of the Up train around 22.30 but didn't wait around until somewhere around 02.00 for the Down, although the shunter was happy to oblige me by posting into all three portions that he coupled together.

After electrification north of Crewe in 1974 the train was 1S81 2038 (in later years 2050) Carlisle to Perth arrive 0012 (in later years 0001). Passengers had a connection out of 1645 Euston-Glasgow.

Post electrification and immediately pre-electrification the Down Caledonian TPO was Carlisle to Perth only - I travelled on it in 1973 behind a class 26 with load 4 throughout, and as noted mails were transferred at Perth to the overnight passenger trains to both Inverness and Aberdeen. There was a passenger connection from Carstairs to Edinburgh which would have conveyed mails transferred from the TPO

In this period the Up Caledonian TPO was a three portioned train, Perth to Carlisle picking one TPO vehicle from each of Glasgow and Edinburgh at Carstairs - plus some vans (BGs/GUVs) from Edinburgh for forward workings from Carlisle, the Perth portion also conveyed a BG but it did not convey passengers although in some years it did take the two coaches south empty for the next down working.
The Glasgow and Edinburgh to Carlisle TPO vehicles retuned north from Carlisle attached to the Down Special, detaching at Carstairs for Edinburgh from where later in the day one of them was worked empty to Glasgow forming the Glasgow section of the Up Caledonian.
The Glasgow portion ran approx. two hours later than the Up Special and as such was able to convey mails from later collections in and around the City and from West Highland line stations where the afternoon trains arrived in Glasgow after the Up Special had departed with a cross City transfer by van. The attached photo shows on the left 'Rannoch Station to Caledonian Up TPO (at Glasgow)' whilst the interesting factor for the other two labels are mails were conveyed by road from Stirling to Crianlarich after closure of the Callander route for forward conveyance on the 06.00 from Queen St. The sorting office for the area eastwards towards Loch Rannoch was in the station building at Rannoch station).

 

[Falcon1200]

After electrification north of Crewe in 1974 the train was 1S81 2038 (in later years 2050) Carlisle to Perth arrive 0012 (in later years 0001). Passengers had a connection out of 1645 Euston-Glasgow.

I regularly used 1S81 between 1979 and 1984, it consisted of 2 Postal vehicles and 2 Mark 1 passenger coaches, except on Saturdays when the Postal vehicles were not conveyed and the train was 2 coaches only! Usually hauled by a 'Roarer' (Class 81-85 electric loco) to Mossend and a Type 2 diesel from there.